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wooly0000
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Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 435
Location: wigan

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 20:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

still no good news they are strugling to find why it wont stick in 5th gear.......... check in again on thursday..... it doesnt sound good  Crying or Very sad
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 20:10    Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join!


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Juddian
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Joined: 31 Jan 2015
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Location: Sunny Northamptonshire

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 17:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

They haven't found coolant though?
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wooly0000
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Joined: 01 Sep 2009
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Location: wigan

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 18:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

No Juddian, they are finishing the "mechanical" tests today  / tomorrow and then its under the bonnet time, i have to call around 12 tomorrow  Crying or Very sad  Crying or Very sad
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wooly0000
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Joined: 01 Sep 2009
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Location: wigan

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 14:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fault found........ the ECU is telling the gearbox to select 5th gear and then cancells the signal, so you see the revs drop then pick up again because it drops the gear, to fix it a new ECU is on order from MrT, the bill ......still counting  Rolling Eyes
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Juddian
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Joined: 31 Jan 2015
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Location: Sunny Northamptonshire

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 15:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest Wooly, this is great news, nothing worn or buggered, simply a replacement ECU...which should be miles cheaper than a recon box.

Will you get the transmission oil changed whilst its in?
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wooly0000
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Joined: 01 Sep 2009
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Location: wigan

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 17:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi fella thanks for the reply, the box has been stripped completely and 1400 of parts put in,  Crying or Very sad  Crying or Very sad  Crying or Very sad  just need the ECU now ........... one positive though; I should have towed the caravan down to Dorset yesterday for 18 nights at Wereram forest caravan park, obviously had to cancell as i dont know when i will get me truck back,  however they have given us a 12 month credit note, god love the good people of Dorset!!! will let you know what the final out come is...... thanks again Juddian
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Juddian
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Joined: 31 Jan 2015
Posts: 234
Location: Sunny Northamptonshire

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 19:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear your holiday has been scuppered Wooly, but that really is decent of them to give your the credit note so you can go again, that's how you treat customers who you want to see again.

Oh, a full rebuild too, 1400 sounds a lot but i don't suppose you'd need more than a handful of unobtainium parts to arrive at that figure.

Have they said what caused the problem in the first place, or is the ECU the basic issue but they've decided together with you that it's not worth just rebuilding as is because those worn parts obviously won't unwear over the coming years?
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wooly0000
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Joined: 01 Sep 2009
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Location: wigan

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 20:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Juddian, after speaking with them today they had to build a lighting test rig to finally find the fault, Maplins supplied some LEDs so that they could see the ECU sending in the signal, the owner said the fault had been really hard to trace but using the custom built rig they found the faulty ECU signal, they dont know what caused the fault and said it looks like a one off. He went onto say they supply technical advise all over the world but never anything like this on a 120, to make things worse they are posting me trucks gearbox pictures on their website  Embarassed
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wooly0000
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Joined: 01 Sep 2009
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Location: wigan

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 20:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well here's the final outcome.

Went in with;

1) Clunk when selecting Drive
2) Wont change into 5th gear

Outcome - 1 fully refurbished gearbox, including new clutches (3 had burned out) 1 new presure reducing valve, new sensors & valves, 1 split and rebuilt tork converter. etc

1 new ECU - As this was a major cause of the problem (took longer to change and fit than the gear box apparently) no steady signal being sent to the box.

Cost - 3000  Crying or Very sad   Crying or Very sad   Crying or Very sad

Result - Better than new its so smooth its unbeleivable

Was it worth it -  To me yes its still the best 4x4 on the market

Garage - totally recomend them, they where brilliant but said it was an absolute "bar steward" to fix and said they never wanted  to see me again!!!!

hope this helps
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Juddian
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

ouch, nay double ouch.

I wonder what a new gearbox and ECU would have cost fitted at MrT, purely out of interest?

Is the ECU inside the box or housed remotely i wonder, i'm asking because if it could be found and removed, if it was purely the ECU at fault, then there are a a few very good workshops dotted about the country who can interrogate and repair these ECU's, i've a bit of experience with these on Mercedes W124 models, where new ECU's were in the order of 1200/1500, i had two different failures with them, and with the second failure (my fault i thought the first repair was overpriced, silly mistake of mine, they were the only people who could find and fix the second fault) i discovered there are some sharks out there in this niche industry.
In my case both repairs were in the magnitude of 300/350, so if an new ECU from MrT was more reasonably priced in the order of 500, then maybe not worth the time and experiment to see if they could find the fault.

For anyone who wants to know, the ECU repairers who can do and i would recommend are on the Isle of Wight (you'll find them by normal search), not cheap, but quality work seldom is.

What mileage are we talking here Wooly, and did they give any advice or inkling as to why the box should have been so worn or if you could have done anything to stop this issue developing?
Did they mention oil changing in the future, as the 5 speed is the first autobox where MrT didn't specify a mileage based oil change, this i understand has changed and they now do, but if i'm wrong happy to be put right.
Did they suggest that oil being in too long had any influence on the wear, or did your particular vehicle see heavy towing under its first ownership i wonder.

As for the cost, well i don't suppose anyone here is surprised, these were expensive machines when new, heavy and made with robust materials, no one would have thought this was going to be a cheap fix.
Just out of interest and to put your bill in context, those bloody awful double clutch automanual gearboxes so beloved of some makers, about as reliable as a politician, are full recon in the region of 3500, and in the case of another makers effort with these hell boxes many cars are write offs at well under 100k miles when the box fails and it's in the order of 4500 cos no *beep* knows how to fix them and (at least in the past) no parts available anyway.

Be interesting to know if anyone has had a Range Rover box reconditioned and what the cost was in comparison, when i tentatively looked at RR's i found many for sale were sporting new gearboxes at around 100k miles, i put this down in some cases to this sealed for life cobblers, in fact when i used to deliver the things in my previous work, there were stickers underneath the boxes informing mechanics of this, again i understand this is no longer the case, stables bolting and horses spring to mind.
Fortunately a couple of my workmates bought into RR's, which then went on to near enough break them financially with the repeated failures, so i sensibly bought Toyota again, and am very unlikely to buy another make as long as i drive.

I along with many others was disappointed that Toyota followed the also ran makers into not specifying transmission changes at mileage/time periods (personally i give such advice a healthy ignoring anyway), c'mon Toyota, people who buy your products do so because they are more reliable and durable than the rest and that's due in no small measure to sensible maintenance, savvy buyers arn't going to be more tempted into buying because a transmission oil change at 60k miles is no longer needed apparently, stop trying to copy/ape the also-rans and follow your own old school regime, which works  Idea

Thanks for coming back and reporting the outcome Wooly, glad your beasty is back on the road  Cool
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wooly0000
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Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 435
Location: wigan

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 16:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Juddian sorry for the late reply (took the caravan to the Peak district for 2wks); heres what i know..........  Confused

1) - The ECU is held by 2 bolts behind the dash and a right *beep* to change, i asked for a new one as i didnt want to risk a repair but your right there are some good repairers out there for araound 250 onward.
2) - New box and ECU for a R/R in excess of 8k not sure what MrT would want but i dont think it would be to far behind
3) - Milage is 156k on my truck,  but they didnt think that the issue was milage related damage, he says it looks like i was just unlucky with the fault signal from the ECU,    i asked about changing the oil and they said its good practice to change the oil around 100k but it isnt as essential as new powerd gear box types (i think thats what he called them) he said the issue wasnt oil related and still looked and tested ok.
4) - The truck had never towed before i bought it, i tow a caravan and asked if he thought this had caused the problem he said no.
5) - The place was full of R/Rs with shreaded boxes caused by oil cooler issues, apparently this is a regular problem for R/Rs

Since the rebuild i have spent nearly 2 weeks towing and driving around the Peak district without any issue, its so smooth its fantastic to drive athough one of the electric windows at the back has stopped working since the batteries where disconected (will have to find the cure in the forum)

Looks like i was just unlucky as the garage that rebuilt it is the biggest in the country and regularly gives technical advice to other auto box repairers all over the world and they have never had a 120 in before mine  Embarassed  they also repair boxes for Nissan under warranty....

Once again BIG THANKS for all your help Juddian your a true star!!!  hope this post helps someone  Idea
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Juddian
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Joined: 31 Jan 2015
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Location: Sunny Northamptonshire

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 13:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pleased for you that you managed to grab a holiday away this year anyway, and still have the other hol park waiting in the wings for next year.

Just bad luck after all then, presumably whilst stripped for diagnosis it made sense during rebuild to renew wearing parts as necessary, would have been silly not to whilst it was stripped.
Shows what could happen unless you have some specialist skills and knowledge put to task on these things, you could easily have had a new transfer box needlessly fitted to no avail, one wonders whether the Toyota main dealer diagnostics could have revealed the gearbox ECU failure or would it have been a case of throw parts at it till we alight on a fix, we'll never know.

Thanks for the full write up of the problem and the specialists comments re maintenance, we're all much wiser now.

Regards
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