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120man ***
Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 171
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Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 0:31 Post subject: LC D4D engine noise. |
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Right. I know a lot of people find the 3.0 D4D to be less than silent, especially from cold. Well, that is the way it is.
But when warmed up still get quite a bit of noise and I became convinced that some of this was noise from the top end valve gear.
What would sort that out? The answer seemed to me to use an oil with a high film shear strength and that points to synthetics, to be specific Ester based synthetics , not PAO. Now these tend to be rather expensive, with one exception: Motul. Not really a big brand name in the UK so it does not get the lofty premium pricing that many lesser synthetics do.
Ended up using this
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-878-motul-8100-x-clean-5w-40-acea-c3-gasoline-diesel-lubricant-for-euro-iv-engines.aspx
Soon after changing the oil it was clear that the engine was much less clattery and 5000 miles later still is. It is one of the still relatively few ACEA C3 oils and is thus suitable for use with EU4 engines and those with diesel particulate filters. |
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Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 0:31 Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join! |
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Phoenix ***
Joined: 02 Apr 2007 Posts: 228
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Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:16 Post subject: |
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I used Motul oil in my 350Z and I can confirm that this brand is highly regarded and worth using.
Opie oils supplied this for me and I must recommend their service |
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boonie **
Joined: 01 Sep 2005 Posts: 80 Location: MIDDLESEX
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Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 15:01 Post subject: |
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so are you saying this is better to use in the 120 series.i have a lc5 on 03 plate very interested thanks matt. |
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Phoenix ***
Joined: 02 Apr 2007 Posts: 228
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Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 19:05 Post subject: |
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Get in touch with 'Guy' at Opie Oils. Tell him the model of car, transmission and all other details and he will reply with his recommendation of oil |
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adamsoble *
Joined: 20 May 2008 Posts: 24 Location: gloucester
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Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 13:43 Post subject: |
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Is this not just tackling the effect and not the cause. I have had the same problem since i got my lc5 and toyota have been less than helpful. There opinion seems to be that unless there is an engine management light on, there is nothing wrong with the car!
Has anyone else had similar experiences with toyota?
120man, what fuel ecomony do you get from yours? As mine has same noise and shocking economy! |
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120man ***
Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 171
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 18:00 Post subject: |
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adamsoble wrote: |
Is this not just tackling the effect and not the cause. I have had the same problem since i got my lc5 and toyota have been less than helpful. There opinion seems to be that unless there is an engine management light on, there is nothing wrong with the car!
Has anyone else had similar experiences with toyota?
120man, what fuel ecomony do you get from yours? As mine has same noise and shocking economy! |
The engine noise is caused by a number of factors. One is that there is, compared to other vehicles, comparitively little sound encapsulation of the engine so you get to hear all of what is going on.
The Motul oil helps because it is an ester based synthetic with high film shear strength and lubrication properties. It removes some of the clatter, but there are bigger factors at work.
The engine has peizo injectors which work very rapidly. The injection phase is not a single squirt as in old diesels but a series of variable rapid pulses. The engine management system changes the injection sequence depending on many factors and this is one reason why the D4D engine sounds like a bucket of bolts when cold: it is running a start up injection sequence that is designed to heat the catalytic converter up quickly.
Now piezo injectors have a common issue: because they spray small amounts of fuel many times rather a single blast, they are very sensitive to fouling and contamination. Dirty injectors produce a poor spray pattern and that can result in many things, the most common being higher noise levels but rough running, smoke, a drop in fuel economy and performance all follow.
So you need decent fuel with a good additive package to keep them clean (such as BP Ultimate) or get some Millers Powersport 4 (Halfords sell it now) and use on a regular basis. If you have an existing problem use both but do not expect an immediate change: could take a few days and some 100's of miles to clear the crud.
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1690423&postcount=291
As to fuel economy, well that depends on how heavy you right foot is, tyres, inflation pressures etc etc but I reckon around 30 mpg overall on mixed A and B roads with very little traffic. Stop start driving lucky to see 25mpg. |
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timbo **
Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 84 Location: Dorset
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Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 13:22 Post subject: |
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Had a long chat with a guy at Toyota last week, he confims what has been said many times on this forum, the noise is common on most LC D4D's and is due to the warm up program, I can actually hear the moment that this program ends as the engine suddenly gets quieter on mine. He showed me a brand new Invincible, it did the same. So its anoying but nothing to worry about. |
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adamsoble *
Joined: 20 May 2008 Posts: 24 Location: gloucester
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Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 14:37 Post subject: |
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I know the noise you mean at startup,
but the noise i have is under load at low revs irrespective of engine temperature or running time.
Fuel economy on mine is between 19 and 22
Have tried all the usual factors, to get 22mpg i have to sit at 65mph for 200 miles on cruise control. That should have given me approx 32 - 34mpg, hence the seriousness of the problem.
I have had this for a year and tried just about everything to improve it, from fuels to speeds, summer and winter etc.
I need to find a diesel specialist who has the quipment and knowledge to diagnose engine issues.
Toyota have been useless so far, but it is my pocket being hit on the twice weekly fillup! |
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timbo **
Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 84 Location: Dorset
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Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 17:38 Post subject: |
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Hi, yes got to admit that isn't good fuel consumption, you should be able to get 30 mpg. I have to say though re the noise, mine has a decided diesal knock at low revs but I've come to accept its normal for this car. An expert might be able to play arround with the pump timing. The only quiet one of these I drove went like a snail, where as mine goes like a train. So it may in the end be a compromise. |
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jojo1 **
Joined: 13 Jul 2008 Posts: 77 Location: Leicestershire
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Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 14:31 Post subject: D4D engine noise |
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Hi All,
New to the forum today, but not new to engine noise on the D4D!
Top end noise on mine was getting progressively worse despite the Toyota main dealer saying there was nothing wrong (usual response whenever it goes in witha fault!) The engines always noisy from cold, but this was a hard edged rattle that was horrendous just over 2000rpm. In the end, they admitted there was an on-going problem with injectors on the D4D engine and I got them to change them under warranty (£1200 otherwise) Result - no noise. Well, not much really. However I've now got a very lumpy tickover when cold and increased fuel consumption. I've been back to Toyota, but guess what? They can't find anything wrong. Ah well...
Jojo |
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uk_vette Lifetime member
Joined: 29 Oct 2007 Posts: 1422 Location: Warrington, Cheshire
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Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 18:41 Post subject: |
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Well, I have had my 120 for a good few months now, and to be perfectly honest, I don't hear any undue noise.
Maybe because your hearing is just better than mine, or maybe my 120 is one of the quiet ones.
It is just a little noisier when cold, at first start of the day, but within 1 ~ 2 minutes, its sounds just great!
When I am cruising at a sedate 50mph, the engine can not be heard.
Remember this has 210,000 miles on a vehicle just 34 months old.
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