Toyota Landcruiser Owners Club

The Toyota Landcruiser Owners Club
Landcruiser Club - Dedicated to Toyota Landcruiser, Amazon, Colorado and Prado Owners
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   Watched TopicsWatched Topics   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your personal messagesLog in to check your personal messages   Log inLog in 
TLOCUK Club ShopClub Shop  TLOCUK Classified Ads serviceClassified Ads  dynamic online chat serviceChatrooms  Yellow Diamond ClubsYellow Diamond Clubs
TLOCUK HomeTLOCUK Home   TLOCUK ForumsTLOCUK Forums  Click here to link to the South African LandCruiser Owners Club websiteLCCSA  Click here to link to the Australian LandCruiser Owners OnLine website - possibly the longest established Land Cruiser club on the net!LCOOL  Click here to link to the IH8MUD website - run by extremely enthusiastic Land Cruiser owners, with a fantastic source of DIY information and useful forum!IH8MUD

legality of winch bumpers and bull bars


 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Toyota Landcruiser Owners Club Forum Index -> Modifications
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
BlueRock
**


Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 82
Location: Somewhere in Europe

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 0:15    Post subject: legality of winch bumpers and bull bars Reply with quote

In my search for a winch mount, I stumbled across some of the hoopla surrounding the EU regulations banning bull bars.  As this raised all kinds of questions, I did a bit of research.  It turns out the situation is not all that dismal.  Here is what I found:

1.  The EU legislation distinguishes between a 'bumper' and a 'frontal protection system.'  The latter is defined as a separate structure which, 'in addition to the original-equipment bumper is *intended* to protect the *external* surface of the vehicle from damage in the event of a collision.'  This includes 'bull-bars' and 'A-bars,' for example.

2.  The legislation bans manufacturers (and probably certain other parties) from 'distributing, offering for sale, or selling' such 'frontal protection systems' unless they have been EU-type approved.  And, the rules are set up so that it is practically impossible to get such type approval.

3.  However, there is nothing preventing someone from owning such a 'frontal protection system,' or installing it on his vehicle.  The rules are aimed at manufactures and distributors, not end users.  End users cannot be prosecuted.

4.  Moreover, the rules don't apply to 'bumpers' and 'winch bumpers', so long as they are not 'intended to protect the external surface of the vehicle from damage in the event of a collision.'  In some cases, this may be a bit of a grey area.   But, the legislation does define a 'bumper' as 'intended to give protection to a vehicle when involved in a low speed frontal collision with another vehicle.'

So, in simple English, you will have a hard time finding a bull bar in Europe, as a lot of suppliers will be unwilling to sell it to you.  However, there is nothing stopping you from installing one, if you happen to come into possession.  Moreover, winch bumpers and winch mounts remain perfectly legal to sell and install.  This was apparently confirmed in a Q&A by the Department of Transport.

In my case, I'm just looking for a decent winch mount or winch bumper.

Here are some web links...

http://www.firstfour.co.uk/p0/new-eu-laws/321539.htm
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2009:035:0001:0031:EN:PDF

BlueRock
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Google
Sponsor





PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 0:15    Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join!


Back to top
J66P
****


Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 439
Location: Doncaster

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 0:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

why not try our winch mount out

http://k4designs.webs.com/
_________________
1998 Toyota Landcruiser Colorado 3.4 V6 (sold)
2001 VW 2.8 V6 Caravelle Surf Bus (sold)
2010 Passat Bluemotion Highline Plus (gone)
VW Amarok BiTdi
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
BlueRock
**


Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 82
Location: Somewhere in Europe

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 9:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just might do so.  
You have mail. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Dave 2000
****


Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 281
Location: Spain

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:25    Post subject: Re: legality of winch bumpers and bull bars Reply with quote

BlueRock wrote:
In my search for a winch mount, I stumbled across some of the hoopla surrounding the EU regulations banning bull bars.  As this raised all kinds of questions, I did a bit of research.  It turns out the situation is not all that dismal.  Here is what I found:

1.  The EU legislation distinguishes between a 'bumper' and a 'frontal protection system.'  The latter is defined as a separate structure which, 'in addition to the original-equipment bumper is *intended* to protect the *external* surface of the vehicle from damage in the event of a collision.'  This includes 'bull-bars' and 'A-bars,' for example.

2.  The legislation bans manufacturers (and probably certain other parties) from 'distributing, offering for sale, or selling' such 'frontal protection systems' unless they have been EU-type approved.  And, the rules are set up so that it is practically impossible to get such type approval.

3.  However, there is nothing preventing someone from owning such a 'frontal protection system,' or installing it on his vehicle.  The rules are aimed at manufactures and distributors, not end users.  End users cannot be prosecuted.

4.  Moreover, the rules don't apply to 'bumpers' and 'winch bumpers', so long as they are not 'intended to protect the external surface of the vehicle from damage in the event of a collision.'  In some cases, this may be a bit of a grey area.   But, the legislation does define a 'bumper' as 'intended to give protection to a vehicle when involved in a low speed frontal collision with another vehicle.'

So, in simple English, you will have a hard time finding a bull bar in Europe, as a lot of suppliers will be unwilling to sell it to you.  However, there is nothing stopping you from installing one, if you happen to come into possession.  Moreover, winch bumpers and winch mounts remain perfectly legal to sell and install.  This was apparently confirmed in a Q&A by the Department of Transport.

In my case, I'm just looking for a decent winch mount or winch bumper.

Here are some web links...

http://www.firstfour.co.uk/p0/new-eu-laws/321539.htm
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2009:035:0001:0031:EN:PDF

BlueRock


I so wish this was the real case in Europe!  Spain only complies with EU legislation when it suits them!   Evil or Very Mad

regards

Dave
_________________
1994 HDJ80 Manual  http://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/my-lc-80-thread.365673/

Remember as an individual you are unique........................ just like everyone else.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Kerbsty
Newbie


Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Posts: 7
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 21:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's actually quite interesting to read as I was wondering about "bull bars" after purchasing a land cruiser which has a HUGE!!! bull bar on it.........

Altho to be fair the height the vehicle is I don't think theres much danger of hurting a kid as they would prob just fit under it lol
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
StephenF
*


Joined: 16 Sep 2011
Posts: 10
Location: US

PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 20:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems if you do find shops that sell it, that they say it is for 'off road use only'. This is probably how they can skirt the law. What is the reasoning behind banning them? Are they a danger to other cars if in a collision?
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
joinerman
*******


Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 2200
Location: Here & there

PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 21:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

More aimed as being a danger to pedestrians, bullbars can do serious damage.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Trydeep
***


Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Posts: 136
Location: N IRELAND

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

About 18 months ago a moped driver in front of me swerved off the road at less than thirty miles per hour. He drove straight into the front of a parked trooper with BIG bull bars. When we got to him he had stopped breathing and was badly broken up. Managed to recussitate and stabilise him until ambulance arrived. Was told that if bullbars hadn't been fitted he would have travelled up the bonnet thus lessening the impact. Seeing him hit the trooper was like watching an impact with a brick wall. Definitely made up my mind about bullbars for just road use!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
alan2479
*


Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 12
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello all,
             when I bought my Lancruiser in Spain, it came with a towbar & Bullbars already installed & I was supplied with the License for them as well.

In Spain they call bullbars  frontal defense.

All the best

Alan.  Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
bodman
*


Joined: 28 Dec 2009
Posts: 22
Location: suffolk

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 22:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

we used to have a 60 series on the farm  in the 80s, it had a bull bar and it got used for just that, the big ol charolais  bull used to amble along when we moved him from field to field then just stop. he was a pissy old sod so it was best to just touch him with the bar to get him to move. just a gentle nudge mind you nothing cruel here. he kind of looked around and sized the job up and moved on. this is the only time i ever had use for a  bull bar in the uk (if you discount using it to open beer bottles when i took it to Donnington monsters of rock hehehe)
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
fast but dim
***


Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 147
Location: CHORLEY

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's also worth considering that a hefty arb style bumper is not only a hazard to pedestrians, but can interfere with airbag deployment and impact absorption in a crash,maybe putting occupants of your car at risk.

I'd love to fit a nice bumper, but i know it's not all about how the car will look. I know i'd never forgive myself if something i fitted to my car mainly for vanity seriously injured someone.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
hairyguy4
*


Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Posts: 24
Location: london

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 18:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

fast but dim wrote:
it's also worth considering that a hefty arb style bumper is not only a hazard to pedestrians, but can interfere with airbag deployment and impact absorption in a crash,maybe putting occupants of your car at risk.

I'd love to fit a nice bumper, but i know it's not all about how the car will look. I know i'd never forgive myself if something i fitted to my car mainly for vanity seriously injured someone.


im pretty sure all new arb bumpers which fit to vehicles with air bags are airbag compatible ie. they will still deploy in a crash
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Andrew Paul
Newbie


Joined: 08 Jul 2010
Posts: 8
Location: Oundle, Northamptonshire

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 16:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

ARB have a range of bars to suit air bagged and non air bagged vehicles. The trick is to make sure you are getting the correct bar for your vehicle.

As for the legal side we happily sell Bull Bars with one condition. The end user must have a winch installed as well - it becomes a piece of equipment then.

I have that in writing from the Department of Transport!
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
smitchell
*


Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Posts: 36
Location: scotland

PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 16:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

So did you find someone who can supply or build a bumper/winch mount for the 100? I've been looking for one to get fitted to my 100, as need a winch for work.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Toyota Landcruiser Owners Club Forum Index -> Modifications All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


All contents © Hobson's Choice IT Solutions Ltd 1997 on
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group