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Misfiring Amazon

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adrianlp
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Joined: 02 Oct 2008
Posts: 24
Location: PEMBROKESHIRE

PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:11    Post subject: Misfiring Amazon Reply with quote

Hi

My 4.7 (which I love very much) has started running rough and it's particularly bad around 2000 rpm. The car runs on lpg but it happens on both fuels. It's had new plugs at the last service but I was wondering if anyone has stories of problems with coil packs. I've read some comments about lpg causing valve problems and I hate to think.... If anyone has any experience of actually using a lube device for lpg that would also be helpful.  Ultimately I'll have to go to our local dealer but I have concerns they'll give me the "lpg conversion not our thing" line again.

I have just lost my passat to lpg valve burn  and really would like this beast to last a few more years so any lpg/amazon experiences most welcome.

Adrian

1999 Amazon 4.7 VX
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:11    Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join!


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Andy Jay
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Joined: 03 Oct 2008
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Location: bRISTOL

PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 14:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hiya


Both myself and a good friend have got the same vehicle as you and both have the same problem. Main dealers want nothing to do with it as its gas, same old story there.

So far we have clarified its not a coil pack / compression issue, nor is it anything to do with plugs or jets.

The car has gone to another garage this week who dare I say it are investigating the more sinister side (the big block)................

I will keep you posted and be greatfull if you could do the same.

Regards

AJ

07831447777
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Wandering Willy
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Joined: 18 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 15:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

A small-ish thing to try is replacing the spark plug leads. When they get old, the engine becomes vulnerable to all sorts of problems; poor running, bad starting, high fuel consumption, even overheating.

I got some new leads quite recently from these people:-

http://www.magnecor.co.uk/applications.htm

They were very helpful and the delivery was overnight. Their product looks good as well!

Willy
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wildsmith
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 17:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you tried having it plugged into a diagnostics reader to see what the sensors are saying? You could for example just have bad O2, MAF or TPS sensor. All the data the ECU is seeing might point you in the right direction.
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Jon m0zxj

01 UZJ100 lifted (AHC & 40mm BL), ARB locked f&r, cryo'd 4.88's, TJM front bumper, 12k goldfish, sliders, rack, snorkel, 35's, storage, aux power etc.
93 HDJ80 sold
94 HDJ80 RIP
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adrianlp
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Joined: 02 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 20:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

well there is plenty to mull over there. I'll take it to toyota for diagnostics as soon as possible and if no joy will try leads. Did you and your mate have the same problem with misfires at 2000 rpm?

Thanks for all the input I will keep all posted.

Adrian.
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Andy Jay
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hiya

We both have the misfire at about 2000 RPM, mine is becoming more tempramental when starting as well.

We have both had tuning experts run full diagnostic checks and have checked the compression side of things, but have still drawn a blank.

I have ordered some new leads, nothing ventured nothing gained I guess.

Cheers

AJ
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wildsmith
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 13:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy Jay wrote:
Hiya

We both have the misfire at about 2000 RPM, mine is becoming more tempramental when starting as well.

We have both had tuning experts run full diagnostic checks and have checked the compression side of things, but have still drawn a blank.

I have ordered some new leads, nothing ventured nothing gained I guess.

Cheers

AJ
What happens above 2000 RPM? Does the misfire continue or is it just in a cirtain rev band?
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Jon m0zxj

01 UZJ100 lifted (AHC & 40mm BL), ARB locked f&r, cryo'd 4.88's, TJM front bumper, 12k goldfish, sliders, rack, snorkel, 35's, storage, aux power etc.
93 HDJ80 sold
94 HDJ80 RIP
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adrianlp
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 14:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine smooths out a bit after 2000 but then it gets harder to tell.
Having trouble starting mine too as well which I didn't mention before.
I havn't had time to get to Toyota but it sounds like it would not help.
Let us know how you get on Andy. The diagnostic at the gas place identified a misfire on bank 1 which was exacerbated on LPG.

Adrian
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adrianlp
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 18:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well much time has passed and I wonder if anyone has got anywhere with this.

As ever I begin to doubt there is just one problem but the lpg still runs like a dog at 2000rpm and I have now had a compression test done too which shows fine.

Putting the hand over the exhaust when on lpg you get a regular puff but perhaps that's to be expected with rough running.
You were talking about replacing leads. Can you explain what needs replacing with these coilpacks on each cylinder. On my old V8 landrover I knew what that meant with a distributor etc.

I often get a stall at a junction when the car's cold and when trying to restart the engine is clearly being told not to fire and sounds like a decompressed diesel... like it is getting a no start instruction from the electronics.

Toyota don't have a clue except they found a dirty sensor and cleaned it. No difference. Nothing significant then on the diagnostic front.

Baffled and confused. Andy, did you get anywhere?

Adrian
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Wandering Willy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a long shot suggestion so apologies if I am leading you up the garden path. I had an old Toyota Previa and it exhibited similar problems to your car. It had done about 100,000 miles and otherwise ran well.

I found that the maze of little pipe and small rubber tubes on the inlet manifold included some splits (the rubber bits not the metal!). These were easily replaced and made a small difference.

The next step was to get some carburetor cleaner in an aerosol can (like WD40) and spray into the metal tubes to flush out the gunk which had built up.

There is a mixture of fine dust and oily spray coming down the inlet pipe and over time it had built up in these fine tubes blocking them. They are part of the engine's sensing system feeding the ECU and this was enough to upset the mixture at certain engine speeds.

The cleaning process was necessary every 6 months but made a big difference. The car had become undriveable at one point until I discovered this.

Willy
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leon
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 19:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am having this exact problem right now ...
The problem seems to be coil packs ..they pass any test but are infact running at harf power ..week spark missfireing at some RPM's etc read about it on some U.S.A forums with cars with the same V8 in them

Seems the coil pack part number has been changed some time in the last year or so witch makes us beleave they had a problem and the new part number is a better coil pack with out this problem !

I'v had mine on all sorts of tests etc trying to trace the missfire but would you beleave it move's  Confused so far iv changed 4 coil packs witch we confermed as "bad " (with second hand ones ) and still have a missfire at low RPM with a slight poping noise from the back end
its more noted when switched to LPG

Were trying to get some from out side the EU as there asking £120 a coilpack here  x8  Shocked

when i get all 8 coils replaced i'll post back and let you guys know what the outcome was  Wink

all started with a plug change  Sad
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uk_vette
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 21:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about the three of you get together an buy a coil pack between you.
Then first person tries it in substitution for each of the original coil packs, same for person 2, and person 3.

that way, keeps costs down as I could imagine a single coil pack would be around 100.00 ?

Just a thought, mine is diesel, so just a 2 cents worth.

'vette
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leon
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 22:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

its between me and the dealer i got it off realy missfired like 2 days after i got it from him .....so as a "trade " person hes trying to find a easten dealer and mass buy the coils at a discounted rate (giving me some extra extra cheep if not free  Cool   )
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adrianlp
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 20:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leon

What news with this? And what do you mean it all started with a plug change?

Mine has now been to LPG installer for LPG side, Toyota for mechanical, Independent for compression (static) test, Prolek for electrical and LPG independent for a once over. No joy on all counts but a considerable sum spent in the course of elimination, as is expected with these things.

However, one or more of the above mechanics must be quite simply not up to the job. All usual avenues have been tested I am told. I can't verify the coil issues obviously.

I now need a real expert, someone who can span the LPG, mechanical and electrical side and deal with this once and for all, because inevitably it won't be just one thing.

I live in Pembrokeshire which isn't great but would obviously travel if given a confident reply, especially along the M4/M5. Alternatively, I would offer 2 nights at a top B&B for two in this stunning coastal National Park plus the usual payment to any successful expert.

If you're out there, get in touch. 07774 468273. Thanks.

Adrian
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leon
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 2:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'v picked up on this from U.S.A forums as the V8 in the LC is used in other cars in the US as well

My whole story (see if this helps ) i got the LC it was fine after about a week it started ticking over ruff (more so on gas ) dealer said it may need new plugs ..
I changed the plugs made no differnce .
still ticked over ruff (ruffer on gas, ruffest @1700 rpm poping noise from the back end vibrasion in the car †) and now and then when on gas cut out when you came to a stop.I had it tested by allsorts of people all said it was fine no fault codes every thing tested ok petrol people blame the gas,gas people blame the petrol side etc etc
Was desided it was a missfire after reading the problems the USA was having with them †...we found this by the following

1:warm up the car (just so we know its at a stedy temp for the following tests )
2:switch over to gas ( LPG )
3:Now with thin nosed plirs nip the gas pipe going to the manafold from eatch gas injecter one at a time
† By nipping the gas pipe you are cutting of the gas to eatch "pot/coilpack/spark plug " one at a time ..if you nip the pipe and the tone changes then that coil pack is ok and the gas is burning (its fireing ok ) ...if you nip the pipe and there is no sound change then that pot wasnt burning the gas any ways and that coil isnt working properly may help if you put the RPM up to 1500-1700 from 500 tickover you can do this by hand, turning the black plastic wheel with the cable going to it on the left top (sorry if am talking to you like your stupid but i dont know how mutch you know about your car †Wink )

To get to the gas inje/pipe you may have to take off the top silver plastic †cover (10mm sockect 2 min job )

now first time we found one coil off ......but with in a week i was back again and found another coil off then another ...then another ! untill i had replaced 4 and still had a coil down ...i ended up replacing all 8 and its †running sweet as a nut so dont be shocked to find more then one down
It was said by some on some forums (no idea if its true or not ) that coils offten go down when you change plugs ..they dont liek being moved ?/?
Some are saying that when one go they all go ..they'v all done the same miles ??
toyo deny this is a problem any ways BUT the coil pack part number has been changed so the coils are made a differnt way now hence the new number
These nackerd coil packs will still pass any tests done to them and the cars ECU dosnt pick up on the fact there not firing so in short you can take it to as menny people as you like they will all say " i have no idea its seems fine "

Now the kick in the balls is toyo wants £120 per coil and you have 8 of them †Shocked thats £960 !
The guy i got them off is doing them for £65 eatch i think dont quote me on that http://www.dj4x4.com/index.php he got 40 direct from the far east there not on his web site yet but hes going to put them on his e bay shop or give him a ring numbers on the website Dave Tate is the man you want to talk to and say its about the coil packs he has for sale ( incase he thinks your telli sales or sumit †Smile †)

You could go down the second hand road but your not goign to know if the replacment ones are any good or how long there going to last †Confused

any thing you want to ask feel free what i typed makes sence at 2.30 in the morning but may read as dribble †Razz


***dont mind the spelling its 2.32 am here am all but asleep i,v checked it over but its all going blury on me now going to bed †Rolling Eyes †)
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Should I have these bit's left over ?
1998 V8 LC Amazon VX work in progress
2008 pug boy
2009 pug boy
2010 pug girl
         ^ dogs Smile


Last edited by leon on Sun May 10, 2009 2:58; edited 4 times in total
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