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Transmission failed....

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MikeJak
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Joined: 28 Mar 2022
Posts: 114
Location: Herts

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 18:24    Post subject: Transmission failed.... Reply with quote

hello, bad day last week, my auto transmission failed completely, no drive or reverse, it has a little bit of drive and reverese (needing high revs) when cold but once heated up just no go.
I was slightly expecting it but not a good surprise.
the transmission was "rebuilt" 3 years ago (previous owner) after a classic ATF contamination/rad failure. there was no oil in the transmission now but I suspect rather then rebuilding they may have changed the filter, flushed the system and called it good.
talking to the transmission shop that will be doing the job this time (I'm braced for a full rebuild and TC) they said they'd have the same suspicion. once glycol contaminates the clutches it just undermines the friction plates and they eventually brake down.
so workd of warning... just catching the pink milkshake early may not be a quick save after all.

any advise to pass on to the transmission shop in regard to the aisin A343F from anyone with experience?

I will bypass the rad to a trans cooler once rebuilt and add a transmission temp gauge...
I like the 95 and plan to keep it so while I didn't plan for the expense I'll take it in stride and enjoy the Landcuiser even more once fixed..
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 18:24    Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join!


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modvrs
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Joined: 03 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 21:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear the bad news. I looked back over your original post from March 2022 and see there was a bill for 2.5k for the trans rebuild from the previous owner - doesn't look like it was a proper job unfortunately. I think like you I would probably suck up the cost of another rebuild as I like the car so much but it's a big pill to swallow. I don't have any tips on what to tell the shop but I'd watch them like a hawk and make regular visits as the job progresses if it were me to make sure they do a better job than the last lot. Hope it goes well.
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MikeJak
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 22:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

modvrs wrote:
Sorry to hear the bad news. I looked back over your original post from March 2022 and see there was a bill for 2.5k for the trans rebuild from the previous owner - doesn't look like it was a proper job unfortunately. I think like you I would probably suck up the cost of another rebuild as I like the car so much but it's a big pill to swallow. I don't have any tips on what to tell the shop but I'd watch them like a hawk and make regular visits as the job progresses if it were me to make sure they do a better job than the last lot. Hope it goes well.

Thanks, appreciate it.  Yes there was a big bill included in the paperwork but clearly the job was not done properly… who knows. My theory (and the new trans shop agree too) is that likely they rebuilt the transmission but just flushed the torque converter upping nicely their profit on the shoulders of the old gent that was the previous owner.
The new shop comes recommended by my mechanic-and friend- so already there is a good introduction. My friend takes all the transmissions of track cars there so fingers crossed. It is indeed a big pill to swallow but hey ho… the chassis is in really good conditions, touch wood the engine is nice and purring along…. At only 170k miles would be a shame to let it go to rest or part out… one step at a time.
Need to work out the size of the trans cooler to bypass the rad one…
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modvrs
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 4:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thinking about it, if the bill was genuine it suggests that some major components were replaced, most likely clutch packs. Any chance of contacting who did it to see if they have a record. I wouldn't rule out something simple like a linkage or a solenoid at this stage, there is a good diagnostic section in the service manual to narrow things down, might be worth a look before ripping the bix out of the car. I always assume the worst on my 25 year old 200k mile truck when something goes wrong but sometimes it really is just a fuse or a broken wire.
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modvrs
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 4:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

* box, not bix! Oh for an edit button.
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MikeJak
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 7:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi modvrs, thanks for putting thought into this…and sorry for the long replies..
I contacted the shop that did the rebuild first thing when I started having some early symptoms on the gearbox. After clarifying any work was out of warranty they were quite friendly and ended up having a good chat. But pretty much was “what is said on the invoice is what we’ve done”
And the invoice says strip and rebuild of gearbox, tested solenoids (originals reused) tc. I do believe the clutch pack in the transmission was likely rebuilt. It’s relatively easy and done in house. I think they may not have bothered with the tc as that needs to be sent off. Or maybe just put in a used one…who know as really..but looks like the tc failed now.
The trans has done 12000miles since the rebuild and the oil was in a real state, or better, it went really quickly from perfect to really dark in a week or 2. It didn’t smell burnt and had expected swarf on the magnets but no sharp metal bits/chunks. I think the darkening of the oil was clutch material and was suspended in the oil from some plate that eventually just disintegrated. Likely from the TC.
The transmission was changing perfectly, right range of rpm and all 3 gears + overdrive. No engine codes so the solenoids should be fine.
I have the full transmission workshop manual and run some of the tests. The drive tests were fine (testing d, r, 2 and L ranges) as long as the tc was doing its job, stall tests were inconsistent. Either in spec or too high, I believe again due to the tc intermittently malfunctioning.
With so much clutch material suspended in the fluid  they’ll want to take apart the valve body to clean channels and internal filters, might get new solenoids. The tc will need refurbishing with new plates, new seals and bearings… plenty of work I suspect.
They rekon once they have the transmission they should get it done in just over a week…I’m not in a rush… just want it done well and to last as long as possible..
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DaveWall
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 15:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

If there was a £2500 rebuild and its failed after 12,000miles.... you need to play hard ball. That's just not good enough!!

Warranty or not I would push for some assistance from them!

If they don't offer some significant assistance, be prepared to Name and Shame their work (Factually, as nothing wrong with that)!!




I would be very wary of going to the same place.
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MikeJak
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Location: Herts

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 16:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dave,
To be honest I thought long and hard about it. Agree that it really isn’t a good enough job.
I wouldn’t really trust them to work on my truck. I’m not going to push for any help from the shop that originally did the rebuild (AllGears in Kingston) they may be a great shop but my only experience is not a good one. A good mate who is a mechanic has a trusted transmission shop in north London where he sends all the track car boxes. One of the 2 owners has a Colorado h that he loves so hope there will be some sympathy and attention.. I want a good job, not necessarily cheap, but we’ll done hopefully… will report back
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mks
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have a look at my posts on here about this issue. I had the same problem with my 2002 D4D Colorado.
I flushed about 40 litres of dexron 3 through the transmission by bypassing the rad and continually filling the trans.
That was at 130K miles.
A new radiator and also a full flush of the heating system and it has been good for another 100,000 miles
No sitting on near 230K.
No rebuild required, didn't even take the sump off.
For me at least it just needed a very good flush
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MikeJak
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Joined: 28 Mar 2022
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Location: Herts

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 11:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

mks wrote:
Have a look at my posts on here about this issue. I had the same problem with my 2002 D4D Colorado.
I flushed about 40 litres of dexron 3 through the transmission by bypassing the rad and continually filling the trans.
That was at 130K miles.
A new radiator and also a full flush of the heating system and it has been good for another 100,000 miles
No sitting on near 230K.
No rebuild required, didn't even take the sump off.
For me at least it just needed a very good flush


thanks for the reply, I did try flushing the transmission but no good results, currently the truck is at a very good trans rebuilder. they found it was quite a mess, the torque converter (they rebuild in house with high precision machinery) is beyond rebuild (the turbine looks like a salad bowl with vanes warped pretty badly) and the clutch packs were totally baked.
the theory is that most aftermarked rads don't have a very good cooler for the ATF, the OEM rad has a good system of fins for the heat exchange, most aftermarket have just a brass pipe. the issue it creates is that the trans runs constantly hot but not hot enough to trigger the A/T overheat light to go off.
I have sourced a low mileage used Torque converter that the shop will rebuild including furnace brazing the turbine and the impeller. need to change the impeller axle too, and will fit heavy duty bearings. the A343F transmission is really heavy duty for the 90 series as was designed to be matched to the V8 on the 80 and 100 series... it only gets killed by coolant or overheating...

I will keep the same rad but fitting an in line B&M cooler after the rad cooler and also a temp gauge upstream of the rad to read the hottest temp...

hopefully back on the road (and off) in a couple of weeks...
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locodriver65
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Joined: 19 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 12:29    Post subject: reply Reply with quote

Hi.
I have owned my LC for 15 years.
Just after I purchased it I found out about the Radiator ATF cooler problems. I replaced the Radiator just to be on the safe side. Since then I have replaced the radiator again.

Much cheaper replacing the Rad than the Auto gearbox.

I hope you sort out your problem without breaking the bank.

I have changed the ATF and filter a couple of times also. (197K miles so far no problems).

Regards

Paul
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MikeJak
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 15:09    Post subject: Re: reply Reply with quote

locodriver65 wrote:
Hi.
I have owned my LC for 15 years.
Just after I purchased it I found out about the Radiator ATF cooler problems. I replaced the Radiator just to be on the safe side. Since then I have replaced the radiator again.

Much cheaper replacing the Rad than the Auto gearbox.

I hope you sort out your problem without breaking the bank.

I have changed the ATF and filter a couple of times also. (197K miles so far no problems).

Regards

Paul


thanks Paul, it was the previous owner that had the rad issue, current rad is 3 yers old and tested, transmission guy suggested that changing rad every 5-7 years is a good idea but watch out as the atf cooler in some is not as efficient as on others. when I bought this 95 series  was hoping the trans was not going to be an issue thans to the rebuild.. but had not been done to very good standards.
It will break the bank unfortunately but I've put quite a bit of work on the truck and really like it, I want to keep it long term so worth dealing with the evil I know rather then starting afresh.. hopefully can get at least another 180k miles from it  Very Happy

wil report back once running again...
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MikeJak
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 10:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update!
Sorry it took a while but here is an update.
The truck is back and drives like new after a full rebuild.
First shop messed me about for way too long keeping postponing when they could do the job.
Stephens Engeneering in Ware came to the rescue.
They found the torque converter was destroyed, lining gone and vanes stripped. The clutch packs had scored from all the clutch material coming from the torque converter..quite a mess.
Nayab Akbar from various Facebook groups came to the rescue too as finding a torque converter for the petrol version is not so easy. Tc was then rebuilt even if low mileage including furnace brazing impeller and turbine.
Changed rear main seal, checked the flexplate, added an external cooler and an in line temp sender.
Done a few hundred miles now and the transmission is nice and responsive with smooth but solid gear changes and a good amount of creep when letting off the brakes both in D and reverse.
Atf temperature sits at a healthy interval between 54 and 78C
Happy days… if I don’t think of my wallet 😅
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MikeJak
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 10:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forgot to add…
Difficult to pin point the reason for failure but the most likely theory is due to the aftermarket rad the previous owner had fitted.
Cheaper rads have very poor atf cooler, just a brass pipe without any exchanger. This would have run the transmission constantly hot but not hot enough to trigger overheating warning effectively slow cooking all clutch linings and atf.

Not a bad idea to fit a cooler and a temperature sensor..
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modvrs
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 16:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pleased to hear you got it sorted and good to know that there is some support out there for these old vehicles.
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