The Toyota Landcruiser Owners Club

[Landcrusher]

Was filling up at Morrisons today and noticed that they have Biodiesel on the same pump as regular and petrol. Picked up a leaflet. Claims lower sulphur, higher cetane rating, less emissions. Same price. So why would you?

The leaflet gives a full breakdown on its spec. I would have given it a bash if I had noticed earlier. Too busy watching the ££ sign rolling past. At £1.07.9 it's a better deal just recently, I certainly noticed the trip to Scotland and back was a heap cheaper. We're looking at 20p lit reduction

LC
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HDJ 80 but still a 90 owner at heart (yeah right!)

[Google]

[oleum]

Is it pure biodiesel or a mixture? I think there are "standard" mixtures of something like 10% biodiesel 90% standard diesel that can be sold as biodiesel. Never really interested me so I may not be completely accurate in this.

[Landcrusher]

It was a pretty high mix actually. Something like 40% is I recall. So not pure BD.

LC
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HDJ 80 but still a 90 owner at heart (yeah right!)

[grannymagic]

Hi Guys, just bought a cruiser and saw the forum on bio.

Just for info I have been working with a bio diesel firm for the last 3 years.
We make machines for bio as well as the fuel and I can say that I have seen some really awfull bio diesel.

The fact is that EN41214 standard biodiesel will not damage any engine at all nor will it damage injectors.
However there is an art to making good biodiesel and not all suppliers do it as there is little profit in bio due to the cost of waste oil at the moment.

Diesel bobs tuning explains it very well as if you look at the section on good diesels and bad diesels he points out which types of pumps are fragile with just normal diesel.  Ultra low sulphur diesel is even said to have less lubrication thatn the engine manufacturers specs.

I have now done 28k in my 2.9 musso on bio and 12k in my e class merc and yes it will be going 100% in my cruiser.
My wifes car however we run 30% diesel and 70% bio, this is because the two electric pumps have quite fine tolerances and the comon rail pumps are normally quite brittle. The mix is only to thin the fuel down for the electric pumps.

If you do want to use bio then there are three main things to good bio.

1 it must be completely reacted with no oil left in it.
2 It must have a ph reading of 6.5 to 7.5  ideally 7 (neutral)
3 It must be dry (crystal clear) like a good single malt.

If it isnt clear dont use it, If it has something settling at the bottom only use the top clear bit.

If you want to test some bio for a complete reaction mix half and half in a jar with water and leave it to settle you should end up with diesel on the top and water on the bottom. If there is a third layer in the middle ITS NOT FINISHED DIESEL.

Bio diesel does however not like rubber, only problem i have had with this is with the spill off pipes on my musso which expanded. I replaced with silicone ones and they have been fine.

And to those of you who wouldnt even think of using biodiesel please remember Rudolf Diesel who invented the diesel engine ran it on brand ne peanut oil not shell.

Hope this helps and if anyone wants anymore info contact me.

We all run diesels at work and all run 100% no problems.

Mitubishi Warrior, VW Tourreg, Audi A6, Isuzu Trooper, E300 Merc, Peugot 206, Ford Galaxy, Mitsubishi Canter, Ssangyong Musso, All on bio.

[nathanrobo]

All

I've been experimenting with Bio-diesel for the last 9 months.  I bought a Biodiesel machine with reacts 120 litres at a go and then uses a mister to wash the crude bio.  It takes about 7 washes (40 litres per wash) to get the waste water from the process clear (at this point you have removed most of the Glycerine - See Wandering Willies post - it's excellent!).

I covered approx 13k miles in my old Citroen Xsara without any problems (2 fuel filters though).  I've just changed my '99 LC 100 series V8 for an '01 4.2 diesel, so now I intend to use bio in the LC.  Before I try I intend to use Ion Exchange resin to further purify the stuff and then I'm going to try 50 / 50 mix for a while and see how it goes.

In summary, if you are making your own fuel I would definitely consider further purification if using the water wash method Purolite or similar.

I'll post again when I've more experience with the LC... in the meantime I'd love to hear from other bio users.

[nathanrobo]

All

I've been experimenting with Bio-diesel for the last 9 months.  I bought a Biodiesel machine with reacts 120 litres at a go and then uses a mister to wash the crude bio.  It takes about 7 washes (40 litres per wash) to get the waste water from the process clear (at this point you have removed most of the Glycerine - See Wandering Willies post - it's excellent!).

I covered approx 13k miles in my old Citroen Xsara without any problems (2 fuel filters though).  I've just changed my '99 LC 100 series V8 for an '01 4.2 diesel, so now I intend to use bio in the LC.  Before I try I intend to use Ion Exchange resin to further purify the stuff and then I'm going to try 50 / 50 mix for a while and see how it goes.

In summary, if you are making your own fuel I would definitely consider further purification if using the water wash method Purolite or similar.

I'll post again when I've more experience with the LC... in the meantime I'd love to hear from other bio users.

[Wandering Willy]

Thanks for the update.

I am still sticking to garage diesel till I can get a clear idea of what is good and what is not. I don't have a source of used vegetable oil to convert and places like Morrisons don't offer any price advantage to make their bio-diesel worth considering.

I don't trust independent converters to produce a good quality product. OK so it should meet all the quality standards but who is going to pay if my engine gets sick?

If the reprocessing were independently checked and there was some sort of compensation if things went wrong, I might consider using bio-diesel but without this and some sort of price advantage what is there going for it?

Can you say how much your home produced stuff is costing? Leave out the cost of the equipment (unless you like doing discounted cash flow calculations!) but some idea of the amount invested to get where you are now would also be interesting.

What do you do with the filtered 'solids' and the glycerine? Their disposal could be a headache.

Good luck with your experiment and long may your LC smell of chips.

Willy
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100 Series 2002 GX diesel automatic

[nathanrobo]

Hi Willie

I think you're absolutely right about not trusting the independents and of course about the lack of incentive from Morrisions (although I bet the price is mostly made of Gordy's duty)!

Any way most of my feedstock is free  - indian / chinese restaurants are just pleased to have the stuff properly disposed of (need to provide a waste transfer note - license exempt).  It's also good to be friendly and reliable.

So I guess costs including energy, excluding machine investment are about 18 - 20 pence per litre.  Using Purolite to further purify will add about 1 - 2 pence depending on source.  I paid £800 for a slightly used GoldenRay machine but I've seen better for less.

Once you have 100 litres or more of Glycerine folk like Goldenray will collect or you can take it to your Methanol supplier who when you purchase chemicals.  

However if you recover the meth from the Glycerine you can use it again and then convert what's left into products such as soap.  I've found the crude Glycerine to be great for degreasing.

Hope this helps!  Best regards

Nathan

[nathanrobo]

Hi all...
I've just changed my V8 '99 100 series for an Anniversary 4.2 with the intention of switching to Bio.  I started to produce bio 9 months ago and have experimented using a cheap Citroen.  To date it's done 14K miles with 3 fuel filters (Biodiesel is very solvent and so cleans all of the dirt from the tank sending it down the fuel line to the filter), but no other problems.  Over this time the quality of my bio has improved too!  

I used a 30% mix with 2 tanks full on the LC and saw a near complete elimination of smoke, both from start up and under acceleration - again no probs!  I going to move to a 50% mix for a while and see how it goes.

I'm keen to get insights from others on their LC 100.  Has anyone else done a serious number of miles in a 100 series on Bio?

By the way I'm using a Golden Ray GR120 machine for production.  If anyone is thinking of investing, I can't really recommend these machines without serious modifications.  Very happy to share experiences.

Regards

Nathan

[deltafive]

We used 100%  biodiesel in our 2000 Hilux for about a year - it was refined chip fat and vegetable oil blended and it cost about 10% less than pump fuel. No real problems but power was down with less MPG, we saw no real gain so gave up and reverted to derv. A 5 or 10% commercial Biodiesel will be OK in any engine but do not put refined chip fat or veg oil into a common rail engine unless it has been designed for it ( some euro engines are but not Toyota) If you want to save money an LPG conversion on a LC120 V6 works well, we run 2 - loads of power and trouble free so far in 80k+

[x_shaun]

i no everyone is trying to save money but wy buy a landcruiser if your not happy with fuel cost    i am happy with my mpg which is 27mpg seeing as most hyundi tucson that come in work are only getting 33mpg

[nathanrobo]

There are a number of reasons why someone might exercise their preference for an LC whilst wanting to use Biodiesel.  For example: Biodiesel is 40% less pollutive than fossil fuel, it potentially runs better than fossil fuel in a diesel engine, most folk with any sense of proportion object to paying such a high percentage of tax on their fuel.  

Additionally we can all see that government will soon make it impossible to drive anything other than small electric vehicles, being able to produce your own high quality alternative is one way to keep trucking longer. So... a bit of perspective and it's obvious that Bio is not only about beating the current crunch!
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E320 CDI Avantegarde, C320 CDI Avantgarde (AMG) Landcruiser 100 4.2 diesel series '01 Anniversary number 118,   Fiat 500 classic 1970, Fiat 500 classic 1971, Fiat 1.2 Pop 2012.

[Daz]

I dont know what type of Bio fuel you have on offer in other countries, but we have some distributors that only sell Bio either made in Aust or SE Aisa.

We use Bio on our Mining fleets, and basically no problems to report. Although when I fill at the Minesite, I notice a drop in power in my work ute (D4D Hilux 4x4 Dual Cab)

My own experience was not good. I filled up at service station in Geraldton heading to Carnarvon. Its a 500km trip, which I have previously done easy in my 2001 5L engine 4x4 Dual Cab, even towing a camper. On this trip with Bio, I had to limp in with fuel gauge on empty, and wasnt towing, and no headwind.

On return trip I fueled at Non-Bio bowser, and did it easy. So I noticed about 15% drop in economy, and this is about same as 15% price difference.

So, yes, its an alternative, but I cant see the savings on cost

I wont be putting it in my Prado

Cheers

Daz

[grenade]

Anyone near Plymouth may be interested in using Plymouth Biofuels in Plympton. I've used their 65p per litre, filtered veg oil in a 50/50 mix with forecourt diesel. It works fine and there was no noticeable difference in power or economy in my '97 3 litre Prado.

Personally, I found the effort of messing with the cans and going out of my way to visit the shop on a Saturday morning to be too much of a hassle. So I stopped using it. For what it's worth though, the quality of the fuel is good and the guys who make it have a good reputation.
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97 SWB Prado, 79 BJ40

[Ronanjordan]

I have looked into using this stuff, but I am slow at the moment, I have heard of a lot of people at home using it, BUT it would be a bit hipocritical of me to use bio and working on an oil rig, just wish I could pipe the stuff home !!!!

They say its running out, but there is a lot still down there to see a lot of us out!!!!