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BioDiesel - Experienced views wanted, good or bad

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GA
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Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 1
Location: Wolverhampton

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 0:00    Post subject: BioDiesel - Experienced views wanted, good or bad Reply with quote

Hi

I've a much loved LC4 Landcruiser with the 3lt D4D. It's an 05 and no longer under warranty, so I'm finally hoping to pluck up the courage to go green and use biodiesel.

Has anyone out there actually run their LC on Bio? Can you share your experiences?

Thanks
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100rob
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Joined: 19 Apr 2008
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Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 23:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi GA, a garage near me used to sell 100% biodiesel.  My Dad used it in his Mitsu L200 for about 6 months, mixed 50/50 with derv, he thought the performance suffered a bit so went back to 100% derv.  I personally wouldn't use it in my 4.2 Amazon 100, I've heard it can damage seals because there isn't enough lubricant in it.  My Amazon is my pride and joy and I would only use the fuel it was designed for, but that's only my opinion!  

Rob
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Towpack
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Joined: 10 May 2005
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Location: Sheffield

PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 23:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bio diesel actually has a greater lubricicty than pump diesel.There can,however be a problem with Bio degrading rubber seals and hoses on some early (pre '93) vehicles.I've just started using it 50/50 in my 80 and can't tell the difference performance wise.Exhaust smells great though!
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Phil


1998 HDJ80 Amazon VX 4.2TD
2004 Yamaha R1 (Sold)
2011 Ducati 1198SP (Sold)
2012 kawasaki ZZr1400
2002 Honda XR650R (BRP)- STOLEN GRRRRR!!!
2010 Husaberg FE570....YIPPEEEEE!!!!
2003 GT XCR3000
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jvoelcker
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 8:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran 100% biodiesel through my 80 series pretty consistently for about 18 months.

Apart from smelling like a chip van I felt the car performed better, ran smoother and was quieter.

Depending on your source you may need to keep an eye on filtration side of things, regularly changing the fuel filter and also checking the water trap (not just for the first few tanks) - my supplier wasn't very good at the consistency side of things so I always kept a spare filter in the car - it wasn't a big problem, just something to keep an eye on.

I had the pump and injectors stripped and serviced soon after my local supplier packed up and they were in good condition considering the car had 150k miles on the clock, there certainly wasn't any sign of damage from the biodiesel.

With the fuel prices as they are I'm looking to start producing my own quite soon.
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Julian
1994 HDJ80, with loads of mods without looking too obscene Smile
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Towpack
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 19:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a sample of bio diesel left standing for 24hrs.What is the milky residue settling out and what's causing it? Also would it be caught by the fuel filter? Car is running fine upto now on 50% bio/pump diesel mix.


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Phil


1998 HDJ80 Amazon VX 4.2TD
2004 Yamaha R1 (Sold)
2011 Ducati 1198SP (Sold)
2012 kawasaki ZZr1400
2002 Honda XR650R (BRP)- STOLEN GRRRRR!!!
2010 Husaberg FE570....YIPPEEEEE!!!!
2003 GT XCR3000
1995 Border Collie-Passed away 23-5-2011
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Wandering Willy
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 17:39    Post subject: Making Bio-Diesel Reply with quote

The results in the bottle show what badly made bio-diesel can look like.

The first step in making the stuff from used cooking oil is to filter out as much of the solids as possible; old chips, bits of batter, etc. The second is to allow it to stand to remove water - it settles to the bottom in a day or so so this isn't very difficult. The third step is to add a mixture of caustic soda and meths. The oil plus soda/meths mixture is warmed and left for a few hours. The oil molecules react with the meths to form a new molecule called an ester. This is the organic chemistry equivalent of a salt (metal plus acid). But here it's the methyl radical from the meths added to the oil molecule. This makes the oil much runnier (less viscous).

HOWEVER. The oil ester contains a residue of any excess meths and caustic soda plus the by-product of the process which is called glycerine. The glycerine settles to the bottom of the mix (which may be what is in the bottle). The 'bio-diesel' needs to be poured off from the glycerine. It is then mixed with more clean water and stirred. This should cause any left over meths and soda to dissolve in the water leaving the bio-diesel clean.

Any meths left in the bio-diesel can eat the seals and plastic parts in the car's fuel system. Any caustic soda can attack aluminium and zinc alloy parts.

If the conversion process is done carefully, it should be a very good fuel. However, the risk of home made bio or a commercial processor getting it wrong are quite large. I am waiting for someone to guarrantee their fuel as risk free before I use it. Obviously, most garage diesel contains a small amount of bio-diesel anyway.

Willy
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Towpack
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 19:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Willy.

This was the finished product bought commercially and ready to put straight in the tank.I put the remainder of the fuel, which I had in a couple of fuel cans,into clear bottles and syphoned off the top clear layer after it had seperated so I'll dispose of what's left over.
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Phil


1998 HDJ80 Amazon VX 4.2TD
2004 Yamaha R1 (Sold)
2011 Ducati 1198SP (Sold)
2012 kawasaki ZZr1400
2002 Honda XR650R (BRP)- STOLEN GRRRRR!!!
2010 Husaberg FE570....YIPPEEEEE!!!!
2003 GT XCR3000
1995 Border Collie-Passed away 23-5-2011
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Landcrusher
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Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 2689
Location: Chesterfield, East Midlands

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 17:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's nasty!  I really wouldn't want that washing around in my tank. Just as a comparison, I mixed a litre of new pure oil with derv and left it for nearly a week - with three days in the fridge for good measure. There was no separation at all.

Have you seen the price of SVO? It's gone up 20p litre this month too. What's the price of biodiesel? I haven't seen any around me. Is it going up too?

LC
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PS
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Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Posts: 4
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 23:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi everyone ,
Any one who can advise me on using a svo /bought new from the shop/ on a last edition of LC 4.
I did this on our 15 years old hilux surf 2.4 td for a while, 50/50 mix, and had no problem whatsoever. But I am not so sure about the new generations of the landcruiser.just purchased one with low mileage from a dealer , but will talk to them for this in a few days time .
Thank you
Smile
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PS
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Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Posts: 4
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 23:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there,
In regard with the yesterday posting by me , I have spoken today to a Toyota dealer for the LC 4  07reg , we purchase it , and they set that for SVO should not have any problem at all, and will not affect the manufacture warranty either. I did not believed my ears first , and asked the manager of the technical department and he set the same thing. But they warned us to be careful with the quality of the biodisel we buy from the suppliers, as the problem described by Phil, might happen.
Good luck guys
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120man
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Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 18:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you use SVO as a fuel (presumably as a mix with ordinary diesel?) be sure to use injector cleaner on a regular basis and a low gum or degummed oil. The injectors on the D4D engine are very sensitve to crud. Also be aware that the ash and residue content of some SVO's is not going to do your catalytic converter a power of good.

Biodiesel can be highly variable in quality. Take care with your supplier
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PS
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Joined: 02 Sep 2008
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Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much for the reply 120men,
If I go for svo it will bi 50/50 mix with normal fuel and unused /from the shop/ cooking oil. What is it low gum or degummed oil, if you can tell a bit more about that.
Thank you very much for your advice. Smile
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Wandering Willy
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Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 1016
Location: Norfolk

PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

A long time ago, vegetable oil was used to make paint and varnish. You don't want the insides of you car's engine painted or varnished!

There are some horror stories here from people who found that the engine was pretty much destroyed by a build-up of 'gum' on the piston rings, bearings, injectors and most of the oilways. In fact anywhere there was fuel oil. Bear in mind that some fuel gets into the engine oil. If it can, it can then set into a sticky rubbery mass!

De-gummed oil has been treated to avoid this happening.

Some types of oil are better at avoiding this problem than others. I can't tell you what to avoid. The big decision is whether to risk it happening at all or to take a gamble and save money/the planet by using a 'green' fuel.

Several people have mentioned getting oil from a reputable source. If you go for bio-diesel there is a recognised quality standard which the processor is expected to meet. This gives you a guarantee of sorts - but don't try to get a new engine from them if it all goes wrong!

If you use SVO, waste oil from the local chip shop or similar, you are probably on your own if there is a problem.

In terms of engine suitability, I found this web site very interesting/useful:-

http://www.dieselbob.co.uk/vegetable.asp

It gives you an idea which cars can cope and which can't. DieselBob is also trying to sell his kit so there is a commercial interest involved.

I hope this helps and offers some further thoughts on the subject.

Willy
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olivergt
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Location: Galway - Ireland

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an 80 series and looked at using SVO etc. After reading some of the horror stories and factoring in all the hassle of sourcing cheap SVO, which doesn't work out that much cheaper than Diesel, especially when running a 50/50 mix. I decided it wasn't worth the risk to the Engine for the small savings.

There are two ways to save money, one, by cheaper fuel, two, use less fuel, I chose number two and decided to improve my driving to get better MPG. I'm currently getting about 30MPG from my 80.

Personally, I wouldn't risk it.

Oliver.
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PS
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Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Posts: 4
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you so much olivergt and Wandering Willy,
the information is very useful.

I will not risk for now the lc 4, and will try to find out the local suppliers of bio diesel.But friend of mine runs company van on bio diesel /they have got three or four vehicles/ and they do get  problems with the fuel pumps /or injections/ of the vans.The quality of the bio diesel is not up to the standards.

Will continue to look in this very interesting issue.

Thanks guys
Smile
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