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Clunk on full right lock


 
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diggerdave
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Joined: 03 Oct 2014
Posts: 448
Location: Bubwith

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 23:17    Post subject: Clunk on full right lock Reply with quote

I'm drawing a blank on this so far, so I'm appealing for any ideas please.

On full right lock and much more rarely on full left lock there is an intermittent metallic clunk from the front end of the car, quite loud and nasty-sounding (if you know what I mean).  I think its from the drivers side, although its hard to be sure.  It sounds as though something metallic catches and releases.  There's plenty of clearance between the tyres and the chassis etc, so it's not the tyres catching.

Initial thought was that something had cracked inside a CV joint, so I had both complete driveshafts replaced with new but this hasn't solved it.

Both I and a proper mechanic have checked upper and lower ball joints, top and bottom suspension arms and found no movement.  Suspension seems to be secure, with springs properly seated.  It was replaced a couple of years ago with new top plates and rubbers as well.

My mechanic claims there is s very slight amount of movement in the steering rack although I have since visually inspected the rack bushes (look fine) and tried to move it by hand (doesn't budge).

Rubber doughnut-thing on the steering column looks fine, no obvious deterioration.  If you grab the column above the doughnut and shake it, the column's a little rattly (I don't know if that's normal, and I don't see why a fault in the steering column would show up only on full lock).

Anti-roll bar bushes look fine and I've replaced the drop links since the clunk developed with no change.

The steering has always been a tiny bit vague, but the clunk has been only happening for a few months and is getting slowly more frequent.

I've ordered up some new rack bushes, but I can't see how a little movement in the rack would cause a clunk.

Is there something obvious (or not so obvious!) that I've overlooked?
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1997 KZJ90 3.0d, 2" suspension lift, 235/85/16 Cooper STT Pros. 217k hard miles
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flint
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Joined: 28 Apr 2014
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Location: uk

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had this too. With a 2" lift, I think that it could be that the bottom ball joint is just going beyond its "comfort zone" on full lock and catching. You might not find any movement in it when checking. I've just replaced mine and the O/S one had gone very stiff in certain positions, but no play evident when in place. I haven't cut it open to check its condition yet, but on a previous vehicle with this problem the nylon cup had started to break up.
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diggerdave
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 14:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm. Food for thought there.  I've had both lower ball joints replaced in the last 2 years/20,000m but that doesn't mean to say they haven't failed again (one was from Andrew Page - Blueprint? - and the other from Milners).
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diggerdave
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 21:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

Early days and I've only briefly tested the car, but I haven't managed to reproduce the clunk since carrying out this fix so it may have worked!

Having eliminated the other possibilities (although mindful of Flint's suggestion about the LBJs), I figured it must be the steering rack.  I remembered occasional posts on here about adjusting the rack tensioner.  I did a bit of searching here and elswhere but clunks are rarely mentioned until I got to a US site here

They recommend actually uprating the steering rack tensioner, but I just tightened mine up by about 45 degrees.  I think the clunk has now gone, or at least is less frequent.  If it hasn't fully gone I might experiment with replacing the part as detailed in the link.

Total cost (if it HAS worked): zero, time spent: 10 minutes (including road test).  Fingers crossed  Exclamation
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diggerdave
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 21:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS.  If you follow the link, a crescent wrench = adjustable spanner and channel locks = adjustable pliers/water pump pliers (I had to look them up! Two countries separated by a common language etc).

I couldn't shift the outer so-called lock nut at all, but with the aid of a length of scaffold tube and some penetrating oil the central nut turned easily enough using an adjustable spanner.
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flint
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting link, hope it does the trick. My lift was done by a previous owner and there is virtually no more camber adjustment left on the upper wishbone bolts. The bolts are not keen to move (still soaking them), and I haven't done a proper check yet, but there's no noticeable looseness in the rack, uneven tyre wear, odd handling etc., just the very occasional nasty noise on full lock.
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diggerdave
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 20:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

After a bit more extensive testing with only occasional clunks I've tightened the tensioner another 45 degrees, so it's about 90 degrees tighter.  I went a little too far at first (could actually feel it fully tight and resisting) and found the steering lost it's ability to self centre and felt a little stiff.  I tested it in that state by driving round in cicles and... no clunk! I backed it off a little till the steering felt ok and tested again... so far, no clunk!

Good luck with your own clunk Flint and I'd say it's well worth checking this out as a possible fix, nothing can really go wrong (I marked the bolt at first so I could return to starting position if needed).
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diggerdave
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 15:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to follow this one up...

After tightening the steering tensioner, the clunk was occuring less often but still there - it only occured in real world driving (i.e. anytime except those times when I'm deliberately testing for it.  You know the way it is).

I ordered a new tensioner from Amayama (about £27 including post from Japan, vs, £117 from my nearest Mr T dealer), but the clunk persists - although even less often.  I compared with the brand new one with the old and I could only detect the tiniest amount of extra play, which might have been my imagination, so I seriously doubt that the old one was actually at fault. My partial cure has resulted from increasing the tension.

However, although it hasn't fully cured the clunk it IS an improvement from which I gather the problem lies in the rack (rather than anything else, like ball joints etc).  My mechanic reckons there is some movement in rack bushes, so I'm getting rack bushes replaced with Milner ones today.  If this doesn't work either the rack or pinion gears are worn or I should do the full upgrade to the newer style of tensioner.  Interestingly I know a mechanic (not one I use) who runs a Colorado of the same age and he cheerfully informed me, 'oh mine does that too!  I've never figured out why.'  Anyway, I'll report back...
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diggerdave
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 15:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I can tell, new steering rack bushes have fully cured my clunk.  My advice to anyone else with this problem would probably be to tighten the tensioner and get the rack bushes done before replacing the tensioner.

Oh and DO NOT BUY MILNERS STEERING RACK BUSH KIT.  How they can they get away with selling something that just doesn't fit?  Shocked   I know it's been covered before, I should have listened... Rolling Eyes
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diggerdave
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Joined: 03 Oct 2014
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Location: Bubwith

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 17:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

To give credit where it's due, Milner refunded me for the steering rack bush kit after I complained  Very Happy .  In all my dealings with them they've struck me as a decent company.  I'd still not recommend their rack bush kit though!

Apparently they've never had a previous complaint, which is a bit surprising given that it has cropped up on this forum before several times.  Their records go back to 2012 and include over 2000 sales (of which some will have been other vehicles, as the same kit covers other Toyota models too).  Maybe it's a quality control issue rather than a poor design, so only some of the kits are affected  Question
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poze
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 20:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

These guys http://www.e bay.com/usr/best--parts have pretty good bushings and suspension parts, quick delivery and good pricing. Ordered front stabilizer links and bushings.
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flint
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 12:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally got round to trying the rack adjustment. Locking ring was a bit of a pain, but got it loose and then torqued the adjuster up to spec (18 ft/lb) and then backed off by 19° as per the manual………and no more nasty noises on full lock so far. I've replaced the bottom balljoints and rack bushes (Whiteline from Roughtrax) in the last few weeks (they needed doing) and it did feel as though it was going to make the noise on a couple of occasions since on full lock (going up a steep and bumpy field with 2 tons of bowser behind) but since the adjustment, all quiet. Thanks very much for passing on the tip. Cool
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