2Gether FS : 01945 585322

The Toyota Landcruiser Owners Club
Landcruiser Club - Dedicated to Toyota Landcruiser, Amazon, Colorado and Prado Owners
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   Watched TopicsWatched Topics   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your personal messagesLog in to check your personal messages   Log inLog in 
TLOCUK HomeTLOCUK Home   TLOCUK ForumsTLOCUK Forums  TLOCUK FaceBook GroupTLOCUK FaceBook Group
Click here to link to the South African LandCruiser Owners Club websiteLCCSA  Click here to link to the Australian LandCruiser Owners OnLine website - possibly the longest established Land Cruiser club on the net!LCOOL  Click here to link to the IH8MUD website - run by extremely enthusiastic Land Cruiser owners, with a fantastic source of DIY information and useful forum!IH8MUD  Yellow Diamond ClubsYellow Diamond Clubs

Another Troopy!

Goto page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Toyota Landcruiser Owners Club Forum Index -> Readers Drives
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
gilghana
****


Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 265
Location: It varies at the moment!

PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually it's strange you ask - I had planned on ripping the water system apart as I am not happy with the hose arrangements, so will take pictures and write it up...  this evening,
Cheers,
Gil
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message Visit poster's website
Google
Sponsor





PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:59    Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join!


Back to top
gilghana
****


Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 265
Location: It varies at the moment!

PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 20:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the system is based on a heat exchanger kit from Glind in Australia - I got it sent from there as numerous emails to so called outfitters in the UK failed to materialise one.  The kit came with a flojet pump.  I then constructed a bracket clamping it to the inlet manifold.  The exchanger is plumbed into the heater circuit - this means you can regulate the heat of the water by adjusting the cab heat control (easy on the troopy which is fully mechanical).  I then used snap in air fittings to make quick connects for the inlet and outlet, as well as rigging two valves and some Tees in order to have a facility to:
- draw water from a bucket, heat and pump out the shower fitting.  You can stick the shower head and suction line in the bucket together thereby getting water to a certain temperature and showering without the car engine running.

- draw water from the tank, heat and shower.

- fill the tank using the pump (it is a powerful little pump).

- by not connecting any snap fittings and opening the two valves I can circulate the 100 liters in the underbody tank.  This is great as at the flick of a switch I can drive along heating my shower water and also at the same time help the cooling system shed some heat.  I haven't tested how much it helps the engine cooling, but I will do so.  With the engine idling from cold, hot water is available within a few minutes, and it can get as hot as anyone would want.  Circulating the tank (again on idle) takes about 15 mins to get to a Ghanashower type temp.  On idle the engine coolant runs at 77 Celcius.  I had fairly crude fittings so swapped out to some hozelock connectors I bought on leave.  The pump is mounted in a bit of a ghetto fashion with BIG cable ties, but underbody neatness doesn't concern me.  I also have a small general ecology filter (again on a snap on fitting) so I can draw potable water instead of cleaning water.  This filter renders anything okay to drink!  The biggest hassle was the tank fitting which required fitting a longer handbrake cable from a HZJ79 pickup which is slightly longer.  Fitting this meant dropping the original fuel tank too.  

Heat exchanger:


Flowjet pump:


Hozelock connectors and valve:


Shower:


Next step is to sew together two ikea shower curtains and make a frame that holds it up - will slide it into one end of a roof bar.  The bottom of the shower cubical is just a rubber mat from one of the foot wells.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message Visit poster's website
busaboy
****


Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 390
Location: Southampton :-)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 20:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool, will look into it, was thinking of modifying something like this from e bay too

http://cgi.e bay.co.uk/Stainless-steel-oil-water-cooler-heat-exchanger-304-ss_W0QQitemZ250403397528QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_Boat_Engines_EngineParts_SM?hash=item250403397528&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1686%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
_________________
1995 4.2 80 Series VX 24 valve, manual. 285/75 - 16 BFG Muds, Ironman +2", TJM Winch Bumper with T-Max Winch, Safari Snorkel, Superpro poly bush kit.
SOLD TO AFRICA
100 Series now on the drive
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
gilghana
****


Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 265
Location: It varies at the moment!

PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 21:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

So folks some more random pics of Troopy stuff from the last days:
Here is the compressor installation - in the battery box on the hinged lid.  Tyre inflation line comes out the little receiver to the left of the diff solenoid.  This line then will join the one from the piggy-backed VIAIR at the small underbody receiver.


I just sorted out the second line and valve coming from the ARB compressor. Here's the home made fittings we made up:

The receiver I made up from an old CO2 extinguisher is way smaller and will tuck in beside the chassis rails or just under the rear bumper. It's really just there to give a blast of air for cleaning stuff or the initial oomph to re-seat a tyre. Cost nothing so why not. I also found a small regulator/water separator which I may as well stick in the line.  Again see the home made fittings to plump two NPT threaded barbs into the top of the extinguisher:

I didn't have that much time this afternoon so only got the front fender flares done. At first I though the flares were really oversized, but in actual fact they are about right especially if I ever go for larger rubber.


Home made side steps time:

I will get better pictures up in daylight when I install them, but basically they are a bit of box section (which is actually too light really, but will have to do) with some bent steam pipe - really strong - welded on with checker plate as the step surface. For the mounts I have again used this steam pipe (we have loads of it from a boiler re-tube) bent on our pipe bender and then with plates and bolts to clamp to the chassis. As I mentioned they are not for rocks really, but I am pleased enough. For painting I ordered (6 months ago!!!) some Wurth products - stone chip paint and underbody schutz. The stone chip stuff is good - textured and tough. The Wurth stuff we buy in Germany and while pricey is good. So tonight I got a spray gun and got the wurth stuff sprayed on. Under the steps I will use the same again followed up with the wax based stuff to damp down some of the stone noise.

You cant see it here but the R/H step had to be very carefully trimmed and cut in various places to accomodate the side exit exhaust. Richard (welder) has taken time out to do my steps from his "proper" job which is currently to rebuild the massive rotor for one of the wood chippers from our wood fired power house... amazing stuff, steam turbines and 1947 boilers. The actual rotor of the turbines are about the size of a 'cruiser gearbox and make 1000hp. He is a fantastic welder - if he was born elsewhere he would be coining it welding pipelines or similar. One of the most humble, talented and helpful guys in our whole plant. You should have seen his expression when he got a month's salary for a day's worth of welding! If I had more time I would get him to give me evening lessons. He produced this from two terrible pictures printed off the 'net plus the troopy parked up for measurements.


As you can see from the holes the steps are mounted with the brackets to the checker plate - this is stronger than the box section as it is damn thick and obviously is welded to the (also) strong steam pipe.

And a close-up of the textured wurth stuff.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message Visit poster's website
gilghana
****


Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 265
Location: It varies at the moment!

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 21:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

Updates:

Had a half day at work, so ideal time to make some progress - got my rear fender flares finished off and set off to the workshop to try to fit the slider steps,,, first problem the bolts were locked in a cupboard - okay, hammer and big s/driver sorted that. Next problem - it's NOT a one man job - and each of the four legs are different (did we mark them? Er no) so it turned into a dog show. Eventually I gave up - and I like to think that after fitting a Longranger sub tank on my own with a bit of 2x4 and a log, lying in the garden that I can hold my own with contortionists and such. So tomorrow I will get a helper. I couldn't get anyone in the w/shop as the 1st of March workers day is taken pretty seriously here.

Got home and tried to do some experimentation with the uber complex piggy back viair/arb compressor system. 1 tyre from 0-45 psi in four and a half minutes... then with a fairly loud bang the cheap air hose blew apart at the arb compressor! So back to the drawing board on that. At least figured out that my system is such that the viair can run the diff lock - as long as the arb solenoid is okay, so I am leaning towards just having the viair as built in redundancy. The loom was getting a little bit hot running two compressors, and I cannot really be *beep* pulling it all apart to do heavier cable.

So out of frustration I decided to do a few compulsory ramp shots. I always said it was a tourer, so don't expect any flex records to be beaten:




I found some better quality gates 1/4" hose in our store and went for compressor trial No2. I removed the valve cores from 4 tyres and dropped them right down to flat, then started everything up... 13 minutes later everything up to 35psi and no burst hoses. The two compressors give quite a flow! The loom was fairly warm, but nothing too alarming - max current draw was 45 amps so you can imagine it hammers the batteries, but the Sterling charger I measured putting back 42amps so manageable. I have to say the ARB certainly gets damn hot so Flipping the lid on the battery box is a must to avoid melting stuff... when running them for tyre inflation - diff locking is no problem. I deliberately left hoses long so that they can be trimmed if they fail due to heat - I will also check our local hyd hose guy if he has something stronger, but if not it should be okay. When running the two compressors with no attachments on the receiver it can cycle the diff lock many times with no compressor start up. I will be fitting my little water trap though as just with these few minutes playing around I can see water in the lines (I can imagine why ARBs are problematic in very cold conditions).

So final list is looking like:
- clean and paint gas struts in RTT
- Fit solar panel, wire it in and regulator
- Fit two large truck battery cut out switches at main battery and rear battery box
- Fit steps
- Underbody/sub and water tank painting/sealing
- sorting (improving) breather on sub tank
- Go crazy with millions of big cable ties underneath to tidy a "few" things up.
- test fit it in a container
_________________
HZJ78 - a Turbo and a 'bit' more!
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message Visit poster's website
Landcrusher
Lifetime member
Lifetime member


Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 2689
Location: Chesterfield, East Midlands

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 22:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking really good, Gil. I have a VIAIR system on board and as tough as the hose is, mine developed a pin-hole first time out. I too left the full length of hose in so that I could cover most eventualities. But I came across a handy little piece in my local stockist. It's not VIAIR, but it's an in-line coupler, just like that used for plastic water pip. Get a split, just cut it, make the ends good and plug them both in to the coupler. Really hand to have around. I had one that leaked a little, but it still gave me air when I needed it. All you do is push the ends back in and you can remove the pipes again.

LC
_________________
HDJ 80 but still a 90 owner at heart (yeah right!)
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
gilghana
****


Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 265
Location: It varies at the moment!

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 18:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks LC!  I have to say my little VIAIR has been great over the last years, I recently stripped he head off it to look for wear and it all seemed tip-top and like new.  The ARB seems also top notch, but I have to say it runs seriously HOT.  The two together give a really sweet output.  The fire extinguisher receiver is really not going to do anything for me other than to enjoy the whooosh of the ARB solenoid a few times without all the racket from compressors Cool Such things are important!  I know the push fittings you mean - great.  Always amazes me how they don't leak.

If you look closely you will see the highlift jack has been "removed".  While you guys were playing at Lincomb I was playing on a Saturday night with some friends - steep bankings and locker testing - end result I ripped off the jack and proceeded to mangle the handle & mechanism  Rolling Eyes
_________________
HZJ78 - a Turbo and a 'bit' more!
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message Visit poster's website
Landcrusher
Lifetime member
Lifetime member


Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 2689
Location: Chesterfield, East Midlands

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 19:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops. I don't think that I have seen a push fit Hi Lift repair part. How about push fit reversing sensors  Laughing  Laughing  Embarassed
_________________
HDJ 80 but still a 90 owner at heart (yeah right!)
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
gilghana
****


Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 265
Location: It varies at the moment!

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 20:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazingly it was on the front...  Only realized when something went twang/bump Embarassed Ach, no big one - didn't like carrying the thing around anyway and that solves the storage dilema for me!

So finally got the slider steps finished - well chuffed!  Strong as an Ox and great no-slip texture.  










Bit dark to see 'em properly, but well!
_________________
HZJ78 - a Turbo and a 'bit' more!
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message Visit poster's website
gilghana
****


Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 265
Location: It varies at the moment!

PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 20:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I am going to bore you all with underbody stuff!

Yesterday we started the prep for underbody sealing. First I sprayed several gallons of degreaser over everything - great fun... stinging eyes, burning skin etc. Then we got out the "bakkie sukkie" (South African firefighting unit that fits in a p/up. We use them in our plantation as well as for field washing vehicles and plant. Great things).



Then we power washed like hell for a good hour and a half. We dropped down the second fuel tank to get decent access. The water tank we will leave in situ as it is a serious pain to get down..




I left the workshop with ringing ears after blasting water out of nooks and crannies with air.. feel like after a nightclub. Helpers Richard and Coby are equally wet and deaf! I left Richard fabricating a bracket for the mini air tank - he was doing something with an anvil and a forge so should be interesting.

Well today I spent the entire day (took the morning off work) masking, spraying etc. Not a job that I would want to repeat in a hurry...

First longranger tank - the Wurth stonechip stuff looks patchy in the sunlight, but it's not really. Think it is just different spraying angles giving different textures. The tank had two coats of stone chip plus one wax.



Then my small air tank and bracket - used a nearby vehicle as a hanger. The blue HZJ75 was my first ever TLC. It's now parked up - it runs, but is a bit surplus at the moment as things are a bit quiet. 13 years old and probably over half a million kms, of which asphalt was the 400kms from Accra when we bought it. Used and abused like you would not believe. Couple of engine overhauls and a blown rear diff is the only real work that has ever been done to it. I have a lot to thank that old truck for (which is also kind of why we still keep it... )





I used Wurth Stone chip protection in wheel arches, steps, tank and air tank. For chassis, axles and as much of the body as I could get to I used wax based schutz. I also have a good few rattle cans of cavity wax to inject in doors. sills, and various other places. About 5 litres of stonechip and 4 of schutz was used in total.

Thanks for watching!
_________________
HZJ78 - a Turbo and a 'bit' more!
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message Visit poster's website
garystockton
Lifetime member
Lifetime member


Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 1190
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 15:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starting to come along nicely - congrats!!

BTW - did you look at using this product:

RustBullet

I think you can source it in Ghana from Mr Chaka Azur (official RB agent for Africa) but no idea of contact details - probably on the US website.

Cheers
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
gilghana
****


Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 265
Location: It varies at the moment!

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 21:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Gary!
Jeez like, it's almost finished  Shocked  Well, are they ever "finished"
RB stuff I considered, asked around here too, but at the end of the day Wurth was easy to organise (just the few month wait - dangerous goods screwed up my shipping schedules!).

Only thing is now does it ever dry Rolling Eyes If tomorrow is sunny it is going into a solar kiln...  big fans and tropical sunshine.  
Time is running now and I need to pull a few late ones this week.



garystockton wrote:
Starting to come along nicely - congrats!!

BTW - did you look at using this product:

RustBullet

I think you can source it in Ghana from Mr Chaka Azur (official RB agent for Africa) but no idea of contact details - probably on the US website.

Cheers

_________________
HZJ78 - a Turbo and a 'bit' more!
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message Visit poster's website
gilghana
****


Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 265
Location: It varies at the moment!

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 22:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, on another thread Gary S suggested I start a separate thread for the trip.  This I will do, but only when it is stuffed in a container and en route!  Meantime this build up thread continues...  Whether it should be here or not I don't know?  Maybe should be in Mods, maybe in 70 series, maybe in overlanding Question  Question
Whatever.  

Carnet is sorted, container is booked and packing lists are in progress.  Clearing agent arranged.  Last minute prep is now continuing apace as time is getting short.  This evening the camera was forgotten at home - sorry!  Well we re-fitted the subtank and connected up the 9 (yes nine) hose connections that comprise a longranger tank and we mounted up the home made air tank tank and brackets as well as the connections.  All looks good.  Of course the sticky Wurth wax stuff is a bit tacky in the tropical heat - so that's a shirt probably trashed!  We also injected a bit of cavity wax, but there is more to do...  

I also got a colleague to pick up a few spares from our local Tojo dealer - top and bottom rad hoses, drive belts and a few filters - these will be stuffed in the side panels.  So Julia is doing all the kitchen/camping item collection and packing lists as I type - leaves me with the vehicle stuff.  Luckily work has eased off - as my MD focusses on my successor and new team members.  Just for interest the mods (sort of in order over last 2 years+) are:

- Longranger 180L tank (gives 270 L total)
- IEF Twin spare wheel rear bumper
- Lightforce driving lamps
- National Luna 40L fridge
- Sterling battery to battery charging system
- CAT 100a/hr battery
- All American Imports Turbo kit based on 1HD-T parts, running about 9psi boost
- Tourfactory (Germany) side exit exhaust (replaced home made one)
- Tourfactory 100L SS water tank
- Glind heat exchanger/shower/potable water/complex spaghetti pipe arrangement
- SAGA boost gauge and Thermogaurd EGT gauge
- Engine saver digital coolant temp gauge and low water alarm
- Hannibal Impi roof tent
- African outback drawer system
- custom made (yup, from tree to finished article it was made only for the troopy Cool ) african mahogany plywood interior panels
- CAT rear flood lamp
- Drop down rear door table (again the poor old Mahogany tree donated this one)
- 30 LED strip lights interior and table illumination
- 6 General AT2 tyres.  
- Milford cargo barrier
- Clipper Battery monitor
- Deep cycle 3rd battery
- Couple of extra power points
- Dobinsons HD rear springs and firestone airbags
- Dobinsons medium front coils
- Koni shocks
- Castor correction bushes
- ARB airlocker rear diff
- True trac torque biasing geared LSD front
- Piggyback ARB/Viair compressor on board set up feeding diff and air tank (either compressor can run all systems or both together)
- Home made front bumper/bar.  Steam pipe and serious steel
- Home made slider steps
- Wheel arch extensions
- Std 105 series tubeless rims
- Mudguards (stolen from a troopy ambulance!)
- Blaupunkt amp, head unit, speakers and subwoofer

90% of these mods were planned without any thoughts of a big trip...  I have always enjoyed fooling with cars and having my own expedition rig.  Lucky enough to have access to workshops, parts and a pretty good procurement and logistics type arrangement - much of the stuff done was planned minimum 6 months ahead Shocked    In my environment it was always a fantasy = tell the boss f**k you, jump in the car and say "fancy driving home".  Okay we haven't done it quite like that, but in a more civilised and polite way.  It's cool - when I started here I wanted an old XT to do trips in.  Bought one.  Then did basically a ground up build of a beat up Defender on a total budget with home made almost everything.  Then built up a new HZJ78...  14 years after getting that XT.  Crazy thing is that I came here on holiday and got offered a job which I thought I would do for a year to save up money to go back to Uni.  Never dreamed it would be 14 years of numerous 4x4s (I think it's about 13 or so now), CAT equipment, Chainsaws and camping!  Only recently it became desks and pressure...  too much.  Great stuff though, learned heaps.

Pictures tomorrow and less rabbiting  Very Happy Sorry.  Probably excitement and nerves - we leave behind some GREAT people and memories (as well as a few dogs and a HZJ105 Crying or Very sad .)
Oh, we pulled down a 20' container from the 'pile' so will get some test fit pictures!
A few trip pics and more details are on IH8MUD of which this is a sort of condensed thread:
Don't click if you have no interest in Troopys!
_________________
HZJ78 - a Turbo and a 'bit' more!
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message Visit poster's website
Desperatezulu
Lifetime member
Lifetime member


Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 483
Location: Surrey

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 10:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Gil,

I share your excitement for your travels ahead! <Green with envy!>
Great job with the build and the mods - been following your story on this forum and on MUD!

Just an idea - I'm sure you've done plenty of research and have a s'load of places to visit while in Nam and ZA. In the very unlikely event that you have not come across them them, the Land Cruiser Club of SA (LCCSA) has a fantastic section of Trip Reports. There are a ton of reports of trips throughout Southern Africa, so IF you want some additional recommendations for places to see (and equally places/routes/campsites to avoid) in Nam and surrounding countries you might be interested in registering and taking a look. Most of the members are happy to share waypoints and routes, so you can easily get detailed info if you want it.

If you've done all this and I'm preaching to the converted, I apologise  Embarassed

All the best!
_________________
Andrew

'98 LC80 4.2TD VX 24v
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
gilghana
****


Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 265
Location: It varies at the moment!

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 21:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Andrew!  I had tried to register before and didn't realise a real name was needed... and then never got round to it.  Sorted!  God you guys are as friendly on the net as you are in real life  Wink  - what a nice welcome I got.  Real friendly bunch!  

So here's some more cross posted progress blurb and pictures.  If you look hard you might spot a yellow diamond.  

Firstly here is the finished air tank mounting:



I was drilling the IEF rear bumper in order to make locks - padlocking bumper means rear doors can't be opened means drawers are pretty secure... 3 hours to get through the damn thing!!! That steel is hard. My little Makita was smoking. Tomorrow night I will get out a magnetic drill press.

Like I said the IEF bumper was HARD - actually unbelievably so. We got serious on Thursday night, tired of small drills and tired of doing everything with a little CFL camping light, so we broke out the big guns A massive mercury lamp to make everything like daylight (why the hell didn't I remember this thing was in the factory earlier?) and a big magnetic drill press which made the going a whole lot easier:



It was still pretty fiddly as we couldn't really get a 100% solid seating for the magnetic base, so it took Cobby holding and me drilling... A bit like the safe cracking scenes in numerous movies only no safety goggles and no gold - our only goal was a hole!



Finished!



And the final result after welding the nuts so there is little chance (unless someone is really tooled up) of opening the back. Obviously this is not the sort of thing where I would lock it constantly - only if leaving the vehicle for a longer time somewhere a bit sketchy.





solar panel is mounted:



This afternoon I stripped down the factory snorkel for two reasons:
- to run the wires down it for the solar panel (they then come out a hole in the wing, before the airfilter housing)
- To silicone all the joints as the factory snorkel is not waterproof. With my track record on this it is better safe than sorry.



I learned the vessel is next Sunday so It's not as hectic as it might have been.
Thanks for watching.
_________________
HZJ78 - a Turbo and a 'bit' more!
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Toyota Landcruiser Owners Club Forum Index -> Readers Drives All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 3 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


All contents © Hobson's Choice IT Solutions Ltd 1997 on
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group