The Toyota Landcruiser Owners Club

garystockton · Last edited by garystockton on Sun Sep 13, 2009 21:07; edited 1 time in total

Completed the installation of the cabling and solenoid and auto-voltage sensor today. Once I decided on the cable routing it worked out quite well.

Primary battery and solenoid (not really visible - behind the diesel fuel filter) on side wall:

Grommet on right to shove wires through - they come out behind the glove-box (note - not the cubby-hole anymore ... Laughing

)

This is where it all comes through:

Mr T kindly left some room in the channels under the door sills for me:

Be careful not to break these stupid flimsy clips - a bit of sideways movement is all it takes Crying or Very sad

Then ran the cables thought the same channels in the back door, then up under the carpet under the rear seat to exit through the hole in the carpet next to the tie down ring. Batter connected, and all works as intended!

Happy days!
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I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it.
- Terry Pratchett

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Landcrusher · Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 20:52 Post subject:

Tidy that. Having done this once before, I took a real short cut this time. I simply tie wrapped it along the top of the chassis rail! Didn't have to go through all that clip snapping nonsense.

What have you done in respect of 'battery management system' Gary? It is just a simple relay with manual activation or is it one of these fancy in cab LED auto sensing gizmos? Nice looking cable too. I bought some jump leads first time and then found that they were all insulation and no copper! Did it properly next time.

LC
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HDJ 80 but still a 90 owner at heart (yeah right!)

garystockton · Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 21:14 Post subject:

Funny, that - I was going to go for the National Luna battery management system from APB (another South African product Wink

) but have hear one or two people cpmplaining, so for now it's an 'intellingent' (i.e. voltage sensing) solenoid, 200 amp, and if that doesn't work just fine then I may consider switching to something else. Worked fine like that in my old 80 series - the battery has a indicator window which is glowing a nice shade of green right now Laughing

I was going to stick it all along the chassis rail, but couldn't get to a suitable grommet at the back to bring it back in.

Cable is nice - 25mm square semi-flexible, lots of copper in there Laughing

2 x 80amp mega-fuses complete the system - one each end of the positive cable, hard up against the batteries ...

Exide 125Ah battery is strapped in to the load bay (for now - I'll sacrifice one of my older ammo boxes for a decent battery box that'll take the inverter too.)
_________________
I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it.
- Terry Pratchett

Landcrusher · Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 22:12 Post subject:

I bought my IBS from Ventrureoverland. It's good. I like the link feature. But I have it running my second battery not my third like you. You have 2 as standard whereas I only had one in the 1st place. My third battery is simply fed via a caravan style switching unit on which I have wired in a voltmeter to show contents. It only ticks in one the main battery is happy and it click out again when you stop. As I am not pulling much from number three, this is sufficient charge.

The IBS will run multiple batteries in fact. If I had a dual battery std cruiser, I would probably split the two originals with this system to give more versatility and security (especially with an auto) if I had high drain equipment like winches, inverters etc. It always protects the main battery which is enough to start the 90 / 120 series anyway. If the main batt goes down, you press the button and it connects the aux on line. I tried this the other week with a completely flat main battery (before I changed the acid) and there wasn't even a light on the dash. Pressed the button and it fired first time.

LC
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HDJ 80 but still a 90 owner at heart (yeah right!)

wildsmith · Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 22:25 Post subject:

Not to knock the IBS and national luna kits but AFAIK they are just voltage sensing devices that display the voltages and let you overide the voltage sensing when you need it. They're convenient, having the voltage display is handy, but they won't charge your aux battery any better or worse than say a caravan type voltage sense device hooked up to a HD relay. To improve the charging you need a DC-DC charger e.g. http://www.marcleleisure.co.uk/store/battery-battery-charger-volt-volt-p-342.html?cPath=24 .
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Jon m0zxj

01 UZJ100 lifted (AHC & 40mm BL), ARB locked f&r, cryo'd 4.88's, TJM front bumper, 12k goldfish, sliders, rack, snorkel, 35's, storage, aux power etc.
93 HDJ80 sold
94 HDJ80 RIP

Landcrusher · Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 22:44 Post subject:

Not quite sure I am with you there. The charge that my second battery gets is from the alternator. It's not a trickle like the third one. I have earth to earth and positive to positive with the 200 amp relay in the positive. The box of tricks is thin wire, sensing voltage yes, nothing clever, but it switches the relay connecting both batteries in parallel to the alternator. I didn't use the chassis as earth, I went for hard wired, post to post. The connecting cable from memory is 40mm 2. My leisure battery just gets about 4 amps. It's pretty quick though.

LC
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HDJ 80 but still a 90 owner at heart (yeah right!)

wildsmith · Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 23:20 Post subject:

Everything on the +VE circuit gets the same voltage, except for the voltage drop caused by cables of course, when your batteries are in parallel. Your 2nd battery may see a higher charge voltage than your leisure because of the 40mm2 cable but if they were both cabled the same they'd see the same charge voltage. If your leisure battery only gets about 4 amps that's because that's the charge current it draws at the voltage the alternator was producing at the time you measured it? Either it was quite well charged or it's quite poorly? AFAIK none of the caravan type split charge devices regulate the voltage or current in any way, they just switch a relay to the +VE when sufficient voltage is detected to indicate the main battery is reasonably charged and the alternator is working. If you used your caravan type voltage sense device to switch your 200 amp relay instead of the IBS you'd be putting exactly the same charge into the batteries as with the IBS. What the IBS gives you is voltage readouts and a button to manually overide the voltage sense/

Because the batteries are connected in parallel, unless they are identical, one will not charge fully and the other may overcharge. That's the way of parallel split charge systems but if you want your extra battery's properly charged then they need to be connected via a DC-DC charger. That will take whatever voltage your alternator is producing to charge the 1st battery and convert it to the correct voltage for optimum charging of the 2nd battery. The 2 batteries would not be connected in parallel, they are two independent circuits with the DC-DC charger bridging them.

mmm, how about: http://www.marcleleisure.co.uk/store/more-docs/SterlingBatToBattCharg02B.htm Very Happy

_________________
Jon m0zxj

01 UZJ100 lifted (AHC & 40mm BL), ARB locked f&r, cryo'd 4.88's, TJM front bumper, 12k goldfish, sliders, rack, snorkel, 35's, storage, aux power etc.
93 HDJ80 sold
94 HDJ80 RIP

Landcrusher · Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 23:52 Post subject:

Jon, I'll take your word for it. Not utterly convinced but it works and that'll do me. The main battery gets charge in isolation and then only passes charge to the other once topped up. The readout shows me this. That's really all I need.
Mr T puts 2 batteries in LWB 90s and wires them the same but without the relay in the circuit. When one battery is down, it tends to take the other with it. Maybe extra resistance or something and there is no way to isolate the bad battery. With this I can, so however it works, I figure that it is better. I'm not dazzled by the electronics, I am with you there. But my system was not that expensive and is easier than another switch on the dash! Nearly £300 for the DC/DC system. I think that I'll pass. I do get the idea though

The little charger is piddly little wires. I get the voltage bit, it's all 12 v (OK a bit more) but I didn't measure the output, the box said that it was regulated 4 amps output. I don't pretend to understand how current etc behaves. I did electrics at college but when it got to star, delta 3ph CTE, etc I went to the pub. No of course I didn't pass! Crying or Very sad

LC
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HDJ 80 but still a 90 owner at heart (yeah right!)

wildsmith · Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 0:32 Post subject:

I've never actually owned an IBS etc, just going by their literature and the fact you end up with the battery's in parallel and the implications of that. If your caravan device is regulated and cheap then it'll be dropping the voltage which isn't good, you want one that just switches it. Is it regulated or just rated at 4amps? ever compared the voltage on the input to the voltage at the output?

FWIW, I have a 300amp relay and the coil is powered through a on-off-on switch. 1st on position is starter battery 12v so starter and aux are permanently in parallel, say for winching or dead starter battery. 2nd on position is connected to the output of a caravan type voltage sense relay so starter and aux are in parallel when starter voltage goes above preset value. Caravan relay only has to power the 300amp relay coil. off position let's me completely isolate the two. My switch is under the bonnect because I didn't get any further than that and I don't have a voltage read out for starter or aux not counting the dash jobby so yours is much fancier and more convenient Very Happy

_________________
Jon m0zxj

01 UZJ100 lifted (AHC & 40mm BL), ARB locked f&r, cryo'd 4.88's, TJM front bumper, 12k goldfish, sliders, rack, snorkel, 35's, storage, aux power etc.
93 HDJ80 sold
94 HDJ80 RIP

Landcrusher · Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 0:54 Post subject:

Well it's more convenient I guess. It's handy because it has alternator output section too. That does change with the state of the batteries. It sort of and I stress sort of, shows what is going on with the alternator. If you click on all of your lights and gadgets sometimes, it will disconnect the second battery and drop right down on the chargometer - say at idle when you engine hasn't run for a while. It's an indicator, that's all, but it is graduated in colour and so far I have kept out of the red zone. I may put my original T alternator back on once the bearings come. I have no idea what the one from Milners is rated at.

Never really grasped current and all that. I know it's all about supply and demand. Volts I am happy with, resistance is cool. But after that I get a bit lost. Now, ballistics, I can talk about all day....

LC
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HDJ 80 but still a 90 owner at heart (yeah right!)

garystockton · Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:32 Post subject:

Landcrusher · Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 19:54 Post subject:

Look Daddy, they lights sure are purdy..

_________________
HDJ 80 but still a 90 owner at heart (yeah right!)

garystockton · Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 20:11 Post subject:

Shiny thangs...

Like fishin' lures 'n beer cans Laughing

(using your best red-neck accent!!)

As long as it works!
_________________
I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it.
- Terry Pratchett

wildsmith · Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 20:50 Post subject:

Very pretty and having the voltage displays and push button control at your fingertips is very useful.
_________________
Jon m0zxj

01 UZJ100 lifted (AHC & 40mm BL), ARB locked f&r, cryo'd 4.88's, TJM front bumper, 12k goldfish, sliders, rack, snorkel, 35's, storage, aux power etc.
93 HDJ80 sold
94 HDJ80 RIP

wildsmith · Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 14:08 Post subject:

Took me a while to find this thread again but thought I'd update with a bit of feedback on something that happened on the lake district run recently. On the sunday I noticed when I transmitted on the CB the voltage sense relay for my split charge system would buzz but I just assumed it was a bit of stray RF and I'd sort it out later. Later the computer monitor started turning itself off and I realised it was when I talked on the CB. Mmm, strange I thought, that's a bit extreme and if it's stray RF I'd better do something about it. Just then I noticed the voltage readout on my HAM radio was showing a very low voltage (forget what it was now) and the penny dropped Rolling Eyes

The voltage sense relay was faulty and so the aux batteries weren't getting charged and transmitting on the CB was pulling the voltage down far enough to turn the computer monitor off ... No problem in the end, just flicked my switch over to the manual always connected position and drove on but if I'd had a fancy IBS type display unit I *might* have noticed something wasn't quite right much sooner. Where's the best place to get one then Laughing

_________________
Jon m0zxj

01 UZJ100 lifted (AHC & 40mm BL), ARB locked f&r, cryo'd 4.88's, TJM front bumper, 12k goldfish, sliders, rack, snorkel, 35's, storage, aux power etc.
93 HDJ80 sold
94 HDJ80 RIP