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The Toyota Landcruiser Owners Club
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Desperatezulu
Lifetime member
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 483
Location: Surrey
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 Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 15:16 Post subject: |
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| Gavlad wrote: |
| As a result of the lift, my steering wheel has turned in the straight ahead position considerably to the left - it was on that side a bit beforehand but now its a joke. Simple fix I presume is to whip it off & turn it round on the splines or is there another trick I'm missing here... |
Gav,
I think you have part of the problem identified here - "as part of my lift"  Your steering wheel being out tells you that the wheel alignment almost certainly is not right. With your playing around with adjustable panhards and the caster correction, you may well have tweaked the toe-in of the front wheels accidentally.
You need to get your wheel alignment properly checked before you start trying to adjust things yourself using tried & tested guesswork - and whipping off the steering, turning it back to 12 o'clock and popping it back on sounds like a particularly poor idea to me  All you're doing is masking the symptoms and not solving the problem.
Once you've had the alignment done and you know where/how much the caster and toe-in are out, you can try and fix the caster and then let the wheel aligners play with the toe-in.
Otherwise, tomorrow's news report might be about the runaway truck that took a sharp right into the neighbour's kitchen while aiming left....
Cheers,
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Andrew
'98 LC80 4.2TD VX 24v |
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 15:16 Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join! |
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Gavlad
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Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 468
Location: Wirral
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 15:36 Post subject: |
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Thanks for your input Andy - this is why I've booked in with my mechanic. I'm sure something else has happened under there whilst I've been monkeying about. I'm keen to become a more adept mechanic because of the purpose for the truck but somethings are a bit above & beyond at this stage.
I thought that fitting the kit would have 'tweaked' the whole configuration of the front end more than it appears to have so if I can hand it over to/be advised on how to tweak it back by a man who can then thats the way to do it.
I don't even know how to measure/quantify the castor I've acheived, let alone require... Better start reading that FSM Jon sent me...
I know from driving her that she's not right at the front but everything is tight & driven cautiously seems fine. But by the end of this install, she's going to be a babe to pedal about in!!!
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Gav
'98 90 - family truck, 275x75 BFG AT's, homebrew aloominium roofrack
'94 HDJ80 - homebrew rear bumper fitted (but not quite ready to recover off!!!), +4 IronMan & 35 MTs ON!!! - front bumper still in the offing... |
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wildsmith
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Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 1580
Location: Stourbridge, West Mids, UK
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 15:47 Post subject: |
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Your steering wheel is out because the steering box is on the chassis and connects to an arm on the axle and with the lift the distance between the two in the straight ahead position has increased, nothing sinister about that. Get used to bump steer now that the steering arm isn't even close to horizontal though Unless you've been twiddling with the track rod your toe isn't affected. Either make the drag link longer, move the pitman arm round on the box, or move your wheel round, end result is the same only the effort to do each is different.
EDIT: If you later adjust the panhard to centre the axle once the suspension has settled that will also upset your straight ahead wheel position so don't panick then either 
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Jon m0zxj
01 UZJ100 lifted (AHC & 40mm BL), ARB locked f&r, cryo'd 4.88's, TJM front bumper, 12k goldfish, sliders, rack, snorkel, 35's, storage, aux power etc.
93 HDJ80 sold
94 HDJ80 RIP |
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x_shaun
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Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 136
Location: BRISTOL
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 20:47 Post subject: |
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looks very good mate can i ask how much the kit cost  |
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Gavlad
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Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 468
Location: Wirral
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:18 Post subject: |
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Hey Jon, tried to respond last night but we seemed to loose 'Net connection here in the office late on...
I haven't twiddled with anything that wasn't being changed but suspect I might have had a misalignment problem before starting the modifications which I'm hoping will be confirmed/denied/sorted today by me local chap & rectify a few of the vibrations... I haven't fitted the new steering damper yet - wondering if that will help out...
Ref the steering wheel alignment, yup, understand what your saying - its all basically 'stretched out' a spun the wheel round a tad. Its not really an issue until I get the rest of it dialled in then I'll get it back to centre by a combination of the aforementioned methods...
Ref bump steer, I notice a few lifted trucks have a pair of steering dampers fitted. Overkill or sensible mod??
Got under her last night with a buddy who's more of a mechanic than me - he's done some rally car building & works for Vauxhalls at Ellesmere Port so has more of a feel for these things than me... He reckons theres a bit of play in the prop that might not be helping & we went round all the bolts again to nip them up after a bit of bedding in. Didn't try to move the axle round though - Rainbow pick up night plus its bloomin dark by half-six these days...
Cheers x_shaun - you can ask, but if I tell you, I'll have to kill you
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Gav
'98 90 - family truck, 275x75 BFG AT's, homebrew aloominium roofrack
'94 HDJ80 - homebrew rear bumper fitted (but not quite ready to recover off!!!), +4 IronMan & 35 MTs ON!!! - front bumper still in the offing... |
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Bat21
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Joined: 14 May 2009
Posts: 246
Location: Shropshire
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 16:07 Post subject: |
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| Gavlad wrote: |
Ref bump steer, I notice a few lifted trucks have a pair of steering dampers fitted. Overkill or sensible mod??
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Gav, I missed these last few posts 
When I first got my 80 it had a 6" lift on it  it looked cool but was a pig to handle, it used to momentarily pull to the left under acceleration and to the right when the brakes were applied.... driving over 60MPH was verging on being lethal.
Basically with the steering arm operating at a steep angle it was effectively moving the steering left/right as the vehicle pitched fore and aft.
I dropped my truck to a 3" lift and all is fine now.
I think my problem was compounded due to the castor not being correct for the 6" lift too. |
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Brett
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Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 354
Location: Norfolk (UK)
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 21:09 Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Would the prop be responsible for the dugga dugga gugga that I am hearing when I back off the throttle? It doesn't do it whilst the truck is 'driving' forwards but does it when driving forwards with little power being put through the drive train... |
| Quote: |
| Clikes - what would be the symptoms of too much castor correction then Jon? |
Gavlad, What you're describing are classic symptoms of a large lift adversely affecting the angle of the diff nose. When you lift the suspension you are altering the angle of the diff nose in relation to the flange on the transfer box, this causes the propshaft to run at an awkward angle which in turn, causes vibration. Unfortunately castor correction makes the angle worse.
The easiest way to fix this, particularly with an 80 (because the swivels are welded onto the axle tube) is to fit a double cardon propshaft. How this works, without going into detail, the two UJ's in the double cardon joint cancel out the vibrations.
Lifting suspension is never an exacting science, as an example, for some reason you can do identical lifts on two different trucks, one will be fine with no vibes, the other wil be affected.
I've had to fit a DC shaft on my Land Rover, it has worked very successfully.
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Brett
20011 VDJ 200
1995 HDJ80 GS, 1HD-FT |
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Pugwash
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Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 257
Location: Ascot, Surrey,
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 23:15 Post subject: |
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The other option which will be easy for LRs but pretty hard for LCs is to change the caster angle by re aligning the steering knuckles- done by removing the swivel housing and attaching them a few degrees around the centre line of the axle. easdy in LRs because you just unbolt the swivel housing, fill the old holes with weld and redrill the bolt holes.
Of course LCs have the swivels welded on- one of the few occasions that i think LR has done something better than LCs |
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Brett
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Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 354
Location: Norfolk (UK)
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 23:36 Post subject: |
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| Pugwash wrote: |
| Of course LCs have the swivels welded on- one of the few occasions that i think LR has done something better than LCs |
Except 101's they have welded swivels also.
Gavlad, to clarify, it's preferable to correct castor at the swivels because you leave your diff angle as normal. By using castor plates, bent arms offset bushes etc you are forcing (rotating) the whole axle tube (including the diff) rather than the ends of the axle only.
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Brett
20011 VDJ 200
1995 HDJ80 GS, 1HD-FT |
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Gavlad
Lifetime member
Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 468
Location: Wirral
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:34 Post subject: |
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Thanks for the further input chaps - I hadn't expected problems with the prop shaft but it sounds like the culpret.
I intend to drop the prop off & see if a clean up & re-grease will help when I get the time. Will driving it in this state cause much damage??
Can anybody reccomend suppliers of prop shaft equipment? I have been reading about wide angle joints/yokes as well as the double cardon setup which might be suitable...
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Gav
'98 90 - family truck, 275x75 BFG AT's, homebrew aloominium roofrack
'94 HDJ80 - homebrew rear bumper fitted (but not quite ready to recover off!!!), +4 IronMan & 35 MTs ON!!! - front bumper still in the offing... |
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wildsmith
Lifetime member
Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 1580
Location: Stourbridge, West Mids, UK
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:51 Post subject: |
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If you think the prop is binding then best not leave it like that too long, just drop the prop and engage centre diff lock for 2wd till you can sort it out. The potential damage is more wear on the slip joint splines (which may be part of the problem anyway) and the diff pinion outer bearing and oil seal won't like it much.
I've seen it said before that some big lifts on an 80 need a DC to solve vibration problems but I've never come across an 80 with one (not saying no one has one, just I've not heard of one). A manual gearbox 80 might be more at risk of needing a DC but I think your problem will be more to do with prop shaft wear and imbalance and it wouldn't hurt to shave a little of that castor correction off to fix the track link contact.
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Jon m0zxj
01 UZJ100 lifted (AHC & 40mm BL), ARB locked f&r, cryo'd 4.88's, TJM front bumper, 12k goldfish, sliders, rack, snorkel, 35's, storage, aux power etc.
93 HDJ80 sold
94 HDJ80 RIP |
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Gavlad
Lifetime member
Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 468
Location: Wirral
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:03 Post subject: |
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Right - job on for the weekend... I've got meself a CDL switch so that will have to go in to give me control of the centre diff... Hints & tips for this op appreciated
I've got the track link off the trailing arms already JW - West Coast 4x4 gave me a set of castor correction bushes which I fitted to drop the arm vertically down as a start point. If I want to 'shave a little of that castor correction off' with them, I'd need to set them to point rearwards to bring the axle round a tad wouldn't I? That is what I'm supposed to be doing isn't it
All a bit trial & error as Brett pointed out but I just need a few hints & tips to allow me to move in the right direction rather than making the problem worse...
Thanks again all!!!
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Gav
'98 90 - family truck, 275x75 BFG AT's, homebrew aloominium roofrack
'94 HDJ80 - homebrew rear bumper fitted (but not quite ready to recover off!!!), +4 IronMan & 35 MTs ON!!! - front bumper still in the offing... |
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wildsmith
Lifetime member
Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 1580
Location: Stourbridge, West Mids, UK
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:19 Post subject: |
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| Gavlad wrote: |
I've got the track link off the trailing arms already JW - West Coast 4x4 gave me a set of castor correction bushes which I fitted to drop the arm vertically down as a start point. If I want to 'shave a little of that castor correction off' with them, I'd need to set them to point rearwards to bring the axle round a tad wouldn't I? That is what I'm supposed to be doing isn't it
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You've already taken a little of the castor correction back off then. Les has a thread about fitting a CDL switch and someone posted pictures of what they did and a link to lcool so just check the top few threads in the 80 section and you should find it.
EDIT: Here you go - http://www.tlocuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6555
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Jon m0zxj
01 UZJ100 lifted (AHC & 40mm BL), ARB locked f&r, cryo'd 4.88's, TJM front bumper, 12k goldfish, sliders, rack, snorkel, 35's, storage, aux power etc.
93 HDJ80 sold
94 HDJ80 RIP |
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Gavlad
Lifetime member
Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 468
Location: Wirral
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:47 Post subject: |
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Ah, good!!! I was hoping that more of the noises would disappear when I did but no...
Thanks for the link too - I had spotted it earlier in the week but its grown since then. Posted a pic of my switch after Les's problems...
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Gav
'98 90 - family truck, 275x75 BFG AT's, homebrew aloominium roofrack
'94 HDJ80 - homebrew rear bumper fitted (but not quite ready to recover off!!!), +4 IronMan & 35 MTs ON!!! - front bumper still in the offing... |
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Gavlad
Lifetime member
Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 468
Location: Wirral
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:13 Post subject: |
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Forgot to update...
Got el camino off the ground onto 4 axle stands with my buddy & ran her up to speed - nothing obvious to observe but there was a bit of play in the front bearings so we nipped them up a tad. Seems to have helpled with the death wobble. Didn't enjoy sitting in her at 30/40mph with the wheels floating like that...
Shaved way too much correction off by adjusting the bushes round - reduced/got rid of the noises but now she's like a heffa on an ice rink so need to find a setting in between & hopefully have a livablewith lift.
Onwards & upwards
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Gav
'98 90 - family truck, 275x75 BFG AT's, homebrew aloominium roofrack
'94 HDJ80 - homebrew rear bumper fitted (but not quite ready to recover off!!!), +4 IronMan & 35 MTs ON!!! - front bumper still in the offing... |
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