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What oil to use for better fuel economy???

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faheemrazzaq
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 15:17    Post subject: What oil to use for better fuel economy??? Reply with quote

It is simple physics that viscous is the oil, more effort engine has to make and lower the fuel economy. Oil becomes viscous as we build up miles and then have to be replace it regularly.

Question is that what oil I must use for the best results in terms of economy and engine performance?

I have a diesel engine and still my mechanic  said that you need to replace after 10,000 miles but I have always heard a figure of 5000-6000 miles for a diesel engine.

Comments plz. Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 15:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure on the 100 - i change mine on the 80 every 3000 miles and oil and filter every 6k.

Without wishing to get shot down here I would think effect of the oil will be minimal compared to other factors.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

TD every 3000-6000 mile max oil change for the turbo if nothing else
but with 4wheels drive AC etc etc i dout the oil will make that mutch differnce tyres would have a biger efect if not the way you drive  Wink

to low a viscous oil or indeed to high and you could  damage your car dont allways beleave what mechanic's tell you some are very good and some just arnt

the bildup in in oil in a TD is mainly sut and other *beep*  this is the stuff that makes the oil go black with time to mutch sut and the oil cant lube the metel work  this is what kills the oil and the reason for changing it ......the oil its self will loose its lube propertys after so menny miles 10k+
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faheemrazzaq
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

leon wrote:
TD every 3000-6000 mile max oil change for the turbo if nothing else


Thanks for the info but what does your first line mean? Is there a seperate oil for turbo itself, which needs to be replaced Sad ... Sorry if it sounds stupid but my knowledge is yet limited on this.

I do not go any off roading or similar stuff, therefore, no hard work for my LC. It is mostly effortless road driving.
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RADIOTWO
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:45    Post subject: Re: What oil to use for better fuel economy??? Reply with quote

faheemrazzaq wrote:
It is simple physics that viscous is the oil, more effort engine has to make and lower the fuel economy. Oil becomes viscous as we build up miles and then have to be replace it regularly.

Question is that what oil I must use for the best results in terms of economy and engine performance?

I have a diesel engine and still my mechanic  said that you need to replace after 10,000 miles but I have always heard a figure of 5000-6000 miles for a diesel engine.

Comments plz. Smile


I am not sure for the older 100 series but the later models it fully synthetic and change every 10000 miles.

But with your point, you say every 5000 miles, it depends on a few factors, but usually if you use the synthetic you can leave it in longer than
the older mineral oils.

also some manufacturers of diesels claim up to 100K miles now a days , I had a Van with variable servicing and it did 35K before it needed a
service.

Mine is a 2004 4.2Td  and I have it serviced every 10K (as per book) and the oil is always syrup colour  and never goes black !

Radiotwo
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Wandering Willy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 13:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

The turbo takes its oil supply from the engine. So the oil has to cope with the high speeds and temperature of the turbo.

I have been using synthetic oil in my cars for the last 10 years or so and have seen a small reduction in fuel consumption as a result. Synthetic oil is lower viscosity and is also more 'oily' - it lowers the friction between subbing parts. All of which is good news. However, anywhere there can be leaks, a thinner oil will escape faster so if the engine is leaking oil, prepare for a bigger mess.

A related subject is that engines build up soot and gunge which is circulated by the oil. If you leave the oil in the engine longer it starts to block the mesh on the oil pickup pipe in the sump, block the filter and any small oil channels. The gunge also lines the sump and reduces the cooling action of the ait passing over it so the oil tends to be hooter as well.

I stick to changing the oil every 5,000 miles as a result.

On the subject of gear and transmission oil you can also use a synthetic oil now. This will probably be a 75w-90 oil rather than the non-synthetic 80w-90 but the difference isn't big. However, the synthetic oil is again more 'oily' which helps reduce friction. In a gearbox or differential friction produces heat which again isn't good for the oil and therefore wear of the rotating parts.

Be careful with gear oil as it comes in two different type. Oil for a gearbox is usually just a thicker material than engine oil. Where engine oil has to cope with very high temperatures and dirt and has many additives in it, most gear oil has few additives. It's just oil.

Oil for differentials on 4x4s, high performance cars and trucks has to be modified to cope with the design of the crown wheel and pinion. While most gears roll against each other these hypoid gears slide and this requires a special additive to prevent them sticking together. This additive smells like cats p**. If you put this oil in a gearbox it can reduce the effectiveness of the syncro-mesh and the gears crunch when you change. On the other hand, if you fill the differential with plain gear oil, it will be damaged as soon as you drive hard anywhere.

So you need two sorts of oil for the gears and transmission.

I would change the oil in these parts at least every 50,000 miles, more often if using the car off road or to pull a heavy trailer. Even then, the investment in oil isn't large and IMHO it is worth using a good quality product. You may get a small saving in fuel use but you will get a longer life from the car.

If you have an automatic, I would change the transmission fluid at least every 20,000 miles, again more often if you use the car off-road or to pull a heavy trailer. Remember that you can only drain about half of the fluid each time so after a change the fluid is half as dirty as before but it is not completely clean. So more often is more important than using the latest most expensive fluid which may not suit your automatic gearbox anyway. A good brand bought in bulk (e.g. something like Comma) is a good investment provided you remember to change the fluid.

Sorry if this is turning into a ramble. Don't forget to change the brake fluid and the oil in the power steering as well!

Willy
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faheemrazzaq
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 18:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks Willy. Very nice explanation.

Still wondering that what could be best oil for my LC?

Can I change it myself. Any guidelines will be appreciated. I am also concerned about disposal of used oil?
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Crispin
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 18:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wandering Willy wrote:

Sorry if this is turning into a ramble. Don't forget to change the brake fluid and the oil in the power steering as well!

Willy


I have yet to read a post that is a ramble. They always interesting reads for us mere mortals Wink
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faheemrazzaq
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also thinking to replace the fuel filter. what is the normal interval before it must be changed?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 14:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

For mine, I always use 10W 40 Halfords part synthetic and change it every 5 or 6K miles. Viscosity is fine for the engine, part synthetic helps but also regular changing. The reason said earlier about the turbo is that the Turbo gets very hot and spins many 1000s RPM more than the engine. If oil is going to break down it will do it in the Turbo and the Turbo will break first.

For the Fuel filter - change it every 15-20K miles unless you are using it in an area where the fuel quality is bad which I shouldn't think there would be a problem in Aberdeen  Very Happy .

Yes you can change the oil yourself. Always change the filter at the same time. You just need a big drain tray (get one that takes 12-15 litres if you can. Run the engine until it is warm as that thins the oil down and makes it drain easier. Stop the engine, put the drain tray underneath the sump - the drain plug is easy to spot on the lowest point of the sump. Undo the drain plug (often you may want to remove the oil filler cap as this also helps it drain faster) and let the oil empty into the drain tray. Leave it fo 1/2 hour so that it can completely drain and stop dripping and then replace the drain plug. Torque up to the proper setting if you have a torque wrench, if not do it up tight but not tight enough to round off the head or break the plug.

From the top then remove the oil filter, near the rear of the engine on the paseenger side, big cylindrical (normally black) thing coming diagonally upwards from half way down the block. you may need a filter wrench/strap to undo it. Make sure the drip tray is moved underneath it as you will drip some oil down out of it when you remove it. Get the new filter out, put a smear of old oil around the rubber O ring and then fit the new filter where the old one came off. Tighten up by hand as tight as you can (but only by hand).

Fill the engine with about 10 1/2 litres of oil. Put the last little amount in slowly, checking the dip stick occasionally as these engines do not like being overfilled.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 15:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wandering Willy wrote:
Synthetic oil is lower viscosity and is also more 'oily' - it lowers the friction between subbing parts.
Willy


Pretty spot on,
The synthetic oil is not really oil as we know it.
is is a manufactured lubricant, and because it is manufactured, it has differences between 'real oil'
With synthetic oil, it 'feels more oily' because it is, and it is because all the molecular components of the oil are the same size.
For normal oil, the molecular sizes are all varying, because it in not a made oil, but a extracted oil, and as such has random molecular sizing.
Some molecules bigger than others, so when the oil is between the crank and the big end shell for example, then the larger molecules are the only ones keeping the metal surfaces apart.
in synthetic oil, all the molecules work together, each absorbing the stresses and strains between shell and crank.

Thats how I was explained it,

'vette
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faheemrazzaq
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 18:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

lucky wrote:
For mine, I always use 10W 40 Halfords part synthetic and change it every 5 or 6K miles. Viscosity is fine for the engine, part synthetic helps but also regular changing.........................


Excellent explanation.  Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 15:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the subject of oil changes I have just started to do my own (VX 4.2 TD 2001 auto) - which I have done on all my previous cars - and I was wondering, given the longer time to achieve pressure after oli/filter change - what is the general practice for start-up for a 4.2 TD VX after the change? I ask because on my other cars I prefer to spin the engine without starting in order to get the oil round, fill the empty filter and the pressure light extinguished before I start up. On my ford if you push the accelerator to the floor and turn the ignition switch the ECU inhibits the engine from firing. I then just spin it on the battery 'till the oil light goes out. Or isn't this generally thought to be necessary ie no pressure for a while does not cause wear (white metal bearings.....)?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 15:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you use the Toyota filter, it has a rubber flap behind the mounting plate which acts as a non return valve for the outside (feed) side of the filter. So, with a new filter if you fill the central hole with clean oil until the filter case is full, most of it will stay there while you screw the filter onto the mounting bracket on the side of the engine.

This means that the filter is fairly full when you start the engine for the first time after an oil change.

I also use filters from a manufacturer called 'Wix' supplied by local parts store (Wilco - covers Norfolk). These also have the rubber non return valve. So there may be other brands as well as Toyota ones with this feature.

http://www.wixeurope.com/

Filling the oil filter helps but there are also the oil supply pipes and channels in the engine to fill if it is completely drained of oil (i.e. left to drain for more than an hour). So filling the filter isn't a complete solution but should help a lot.

If you have a petrol engined car, you can remove the spark plugs and let the starter motor crank the engine (it will turn a bit easier without the plugs in place) until the oil pressure light goes out. With a diesel engine, you could take off the diesel supply tube from the tank - at the fuel filter - to allow the fuel to drain back to the tank and prevent the engine from starting until it has turned over on the starter for a few minutes. But I don't think the fuel injection pump would like this very much as it relies on a flow of diesel oil to lubricate it. Someone here may have other thoughts on this idea.

Wiily
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 23:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are representative of the oils suitable for the LC 4.2 direct injection.  http://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=65
I use the first one, which is Ultra low SAPS 10w/40 which is an ultra high performance synthetic diesel oil intended for the longest extended service intervals and severest duty. I don't utilise its full potential and drain after only every 10,000 miles.
The Ring Free XHD 15w//40 would be equally suitable for 10,000 mile service intervals and at a fraction of the cost and is what I use in the vast majority of my vehicles up to 400 hours use, that's about 12,000 road miles.

I do a fair amount of towing and rural driving. The auto is changed for standard ATF DexronIII every 20 to 30,000 miles. The transfer box is changed every 50,000 miles or more for 10w/30 super universal tractor oil and the axles at similar intervals for EP85w/140. Brake fluid every three or four years and suspension fluid every 50,000 miles so far with original.
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