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Paulmc *
Joined: 05 Feb 2021 Posts: 14 Location: West Midlands
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 13:20 Post subject: 2002 D4D auto gearbox faulty - flush procedure? |
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Hi guys, I recently just purchased a 2002 LWB VX model. It’s got 205,000 miles with FSH & is in pretty mint condition all round, everything seems to work (except gearbox) no rust, nothing broken & very good condition.
I bought it cheap as the auto gearbox started playing up. It doesn’t always select reverse & when going up hills when hot, previous owner says it loses drive. I’ve checked the oil on dipstick & it’s not clear red but a brown colour. The previous owner said it has had a gearbox oil change some time back & also the rad has been changed so I’m assuming it’s has the leaking coolant into ATF issue which might have caused the failure over time. I bought it with the full intention of having a recon box fitted but wonder if I should try a flush.
Any help or advise would be much appreciated please as I don’t know Toyotas yet only Land rovers. |
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 13:20 Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join! |
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warwick lawley *
Joined: 11 Mar 2016 Posts: 29 Location: united kingdom
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 18:00 Post subject: auto box slipping |
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The shade of brown is important as a light brown could indicate a previous water coolant contamination and a dark brown indicating overheating and burnt linings. If a reputable reverse flushing facility is available by a local garage then give it a go first as you may be lucky. A proper flush should be around £150 which is not cheap but a gamble worth consideration should the problem only be coolant contamination bearing in mind a flush may not sufficient to clear severe contamination. When my auto box suddenly ceased to provide any drive , I checked the oil first which was clean, then disconnected the plug to remove the electrical control and checked for drive manually. I came to the conclusion that there was insufficient oil pressure getting to the torque convertor so opted for an auto box replacement. I would have considered firstly an oil flush in case of a simple blockage but decided not to as the cost of trailering the car to Bristol being the nearest place to get a flush was too expensive. Good luck. |
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Paulmc *
Joined: 05 Feb 2021 Posts: 14 Location: West Midlands
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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 0:12 Post subject: Re: auto box slipping |
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warwick lawley wrote: |
The shade of brown is important as a light brown could indicate a previous water coolant contamination and a dark brown indicating overheating and burnt linings. If a reputable reverse flushing facility is available by a local garage then give it a go first as you may be lucky. A proper flush should be around £150 which is not cheap but a gamble worth consideration should the problem only be coolant contamination bearing in mind a flush may not sufficient to clear severe contamination. When my auto box suddenly ceased to provide any drive , I checked the oil first which was clean, then disconnected the plug to remove the electrical control and checked for drive manually. I came to the conclusion that there was insufficient oil pressure getting to the torque convertor so opted for an auto box replacement. I would have considered firstly an oil flush in case of a simple blockage but decided not to as the cost of trailering the car to Bristol being the nearest place to get a flush was too expensive. Good luck. |
It’s more of a light brown than dark. I actually ended up taking it to a gearbox specialist & he could find no fault when he put it on the computer & also it did not give me a fault on the drive there. As it was only a few miles drive he suggested I drive it around to get the oil hot & see what happens. So I spent the afternoon using it as normal & even giving a run but it was perfect. I even floored it a few times, expecting it to slip or something but nothing happened. So with no actual fault showing nothing can be done as yet. I’m sure the fault that the previous owner had will show up otherwise be wouldn’t have sold it cheap with a gearbox fault. |
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warwick lawley *
Joined: 11 Mar 2016 Posts: 29 Location: united kingdom
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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:34 Post subject: |
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That's good to hear that no faults were logged so the solenoids are all OK. Did you mention an oil flush and filter change to the gearbox mechanic. Also good to hear the oil was not dark so safe to assume the band linings are not burnt out. As the box is apparently functioning well, it's a safe bet that there is no corrosion causing blockages or restrictions in the metering orifices and channels so now may be a good time to consider a full flush out and filter change. A good opportunity to see if there are any metallic sediments in the sump pan. Can't think of an explanation as to why the box is now working fine so when the going is good, go for the flush and remove as much of the water contamination as possible. Good luck. |
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Paulmc *
Joined: 05 Feb 2021 Posts: 14 Location: West Midlands
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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 14:56 Post subject: |
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warwick lawley wrote: |
That's good to hear that no faults were logged so the solenoids are all OK. Did you mention an oil flush and filter change to the gearbox mechanic. Also good to hear the oil was not dark so safe to assume the band linings are not burnt out. As the box is apparently functioning well, it's a safe bet that there is no corrosion causing blockages or restrictions in the metering orifices and channels so now may be a good time to consider a full flush out and filter change. A good opportunity to see if there are any metallic sediments in the sump pan. Can't think of an explanation as to why the box is now working fine so when the going is good, go for the flush and remove as much of the water contamination as possible. Good luck. |
The gearbox guy did say that if I want he can do a service on the box but he suggested driving it first to see what it throws up. I had actually bought 10 litres of dexron 3 & the filter to do it myself. He did also say maybe all the faults were cleared by previous mechanic before sale but that made no real sense as the seller never tried to deceive in any way and was upfront & honest about every aspect of the vehicle.
I’m trying to decide if I should drive it again for a while & see what happens or drop out the fluid & change the filter first. |
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Paulmc *
Joined: 05 Feb 2021 Posts: 14 Location: West Midlands
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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 14:58 Post subject: |
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Actually after reading your reply again, I will do as suggested & drop the fluid & filter change first. |
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warwick lawley *
Joined: 11 Mar 2016 Posts: 29 Location: united kingdom
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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 16:10 Post subject: |
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That's the way to go. One point worth mentioning is that a home drain of the gearbox will only draw 2 litres of oil from the sump, with the remaining 10 Litres still being in the torque convertor, oil galleries and cooling radiator. This effectively will mean that you are only changing part quantity of the oil with clean oil to mix with the remaining contaminated 10 Litres of oil so you are still left with a load of contaminated oil in the box. A professional oil replacement involves constant back flushing of the gearbox usually at the oil cooler radiator pipe to flush out practically all of the contaminated oil leaving you with a total of approx 12 Litres of clean oil in the box. It costs a lot but it's the only way to clear out the contaminated oil. One could say that you could do numerous oil changes 2 litres at a time with a good run in between each change but that is only diluting the contaminated oil in numerous stages but will not fully remove the contaminated oil. I would bite the bullet and get the box properly flushed out by the professionals. Let us know how it goes. Cheers |
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Paulmc *
Joined: 05 Feb 2021 Posts: 14 Location: West Midlands
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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 16:30 Post subject: |
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I was planning on doing at least two oil changes. I only thought the box held around 5L of oil. 12L seems a lot for a auto box. Is this correct or was it a typo? |
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warwick lawley *
Joined: 11 Mar 2016 Posts: 29 Location: united kingdom
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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 18:10 Post subject: |
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Hi, The box has a capacity of 12 Litres of oil which is the quantity needed to fill a dry box. Only 2 Litres are drained from the sump drain plug hence only one sixth of the oil will be replaced. Not a typo, these figures are correct. Cheers |
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warwick lawley *
Joined: 11 Mar 2016 Posts: 29 Location: united kingdom
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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 18:16 Post subject: |
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To put your mind at rest, your Owner's Manual only quotes the drain quantity as 2Litres meaning a drain via the sump plug which would be done on a service. We are requiring something more than a service here so the full quantity of 12 Litres needs to be replaced. |
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modvrs ****
Joined: 03 Oct 2013 Posts: 296 Location: Southampton
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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 18:29 Post subject: |
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Make sure you've got a big enough drain bucket, I've seen numerous references to only 2 litres coming out but I've drained mine twice since I've owned it and on both occasions I measured 5 litres coming out. _________________ 1997 Toyota Land Cruiser Colorado 3.4VX |
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Aeroelastic **
Joined: 25 Dec 2017 Posts: 58 Location: Cumbria
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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 21:23 Post subject: |
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Agree, mine has about 4 litre coming out, it’s a 3.0td Prado but should not make a difference. |
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warwick lawley *
Joined: 11 Mar 2016 Posts: 29 Location: united kingdom
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Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 0:25 Post subject: |
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It's good to hear some feedback from other people's experience to add to the knowledge bucket. Interesting as to the varying amounts of oil quantity being drained. I recall getting only 2 Litres when draining. This raises another question out of interest. A few years ago when I had problems with my auto box, I spent hours researching and have a vague recollection that there was a thermostatic valve which opened when hot to allow oil flow through to the oil radiator. would there not be a ball sprung valve in the system to prevent the oil in the radiator from draining out, maybe this could account for the varying quantities of oil when draining. Thanks guys for any info. |
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modvrs ****
Joined: 03 Oct 2013 Posts: 296 Location: Southampton
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Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:22 Post subject: |
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Sounds a good theory. I've always drained mine hot so maybe the valve was open. _________________ 1997 Toyota Land Cruiser Colorado 3.4VX |
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mks ***
Joined: 20 Aug 2007 Posts: 151 Location: kent
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 14:02 Post subject: |
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Mine suffered the dreaded coolant in the ATF box a few years back at around 130K miles. I did several complete flushes after replacing the radiator
First I removed the old rad and noticed that it was full of crud and the oil cooler pipes literally fell off.
I took them off, araldited patches on the holes reconnected the radiator and flushed the cooling system with jizer to get all the crud out of the cooling system including heater hoses
For this exercise I connected both ends of the the atf feed together effectively bypassing the radiator
Next was a radiator replacement
Then got the engine hot and ran atf through the gearbox not connected to the rad, loads of emulsion flushed out, was a real mess
Fluid was pumped into a bucket and fresh fluid added, either via the dipstick or you could put the other tube from the gearbox into a container of fresh fluid. I didn't try that, as I recall I went for adding via the dipstick, allow about 5 litres to pump through and repeat.
I put about 20 litres of dexron 3 through the gearbox.
That got the car going again
I ran it for a few days and did the same again
Fluid was pretty clear by then but I did repeat the whole procedure again after a few weeks.
so about 60 litres of dextrin used but saved an expensive rebuild or replacement gearbox.
I got the dextrin from Smith and Allan at very reasonable prices
Since then the car has run fine, now at 215K miles
Fluid still very clean and no issues with the gearbox
I'm thinking it might be time to repack the radiator again soon to avoid that whole palaver again _________________ Martin
2002 LWB LC Colorado VX D4D
2014 LC 200 4.5 V8 Diesel |
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