The Toyota Landcruiser Owners Club

[toafrica]

Hi guys,

As you probably know we are heading South for a couple of thousand miles soon (hopefully), and have started the carnet investigation.

Jeez what a nightmare.... we had planned to go Turkey/Syria/Jordan/Egypt...... whoa stop the bus..... I know Egypt's import duty is pathetic at 800%, but equally annoying is the dogged detemination of Britian to remain as 'Rip-off Britian'. The RAC are the only crowd doing carnets in the UK, but you have to lodge either the full amount or take insurance.

Scenario:-
Vehicle worth £10k - but obviously I tell them it's £5k

UK carnet
Full bank deposit of highest duty - £5k x 8 = £40k lodged at RAC - I lose interest etc etc on that or get 0.00005%
Insurance route - £5k x 8 = £40k x 10% = £4k of which you only get 50% back  -so lose £2k
A few of you may think I'm being tight but why do we always get ripped off???

If I was German on the other hand - OK besides two world wars and one world cup..

German ADAC carnet
Vehicle value up to 15k Euro-  deposit - 10k Euro which is fully refundable
If the vehicle is not registered in Germany you apparently can't go down this route anymore (as of this year)

I am now rethinking the route completely and EITHER going down West coast:-

Morroco/Mauritania/Mali/Niger/Cameroun etc

Problem with that is that you are stuck on the West pretty much all the way down, and West coast = cold sea, and I plan on chilling on the beach a LOT!!

OR...

Graham - I've seen you have posted on the Hubb about a ferry between Sudan and Saudi  - this would be brilliant -

anyone done this route or heard about it??

Cheers
Andrew
_________________
2001 Colorado D4-D - BFG-AT's, OME, snorkel, ASIFR plates
Was preparing for Overland - but unexpected baby has delayed that - NOTE - delayed not cancelled

[Google]

[ChrisC]

What about a bank guarantee to secure the carnet, thats what I did with the RAC, I bank with Natwest, think it cost me £100/200?? approx to get the bank to supply guarantee.

Check with Paul at the RAC and then your bank.

Chris

[uk_vette]

Hi Andrew,

The Egypt is what stopped me ' dead in my tracks'
I might be a mug, but not that big a mug !

I am afraid I will also be skipping Egypt, shame really, but but not loosing that much money.
The 'non refundable' part of the carnet insurance, well,
Thats the cost of almost the whole fuel budget from UK to Cape Town!

I think my final route will be through Istanbul, (fantastic place)  Turkey, Syria, Jordan ( or Iraq, ) Saudi. to Jeddah, then short ferry to Port Sudan (could actually be Sawakin) then onto Haya, Atbara, and south to Khurtume.
From there, Kenya, Tanzania, Malawi, Zambia, Botswana to Namibia west coast, then south to Cape Town..
.
Some thing like this, but not fixed.


When arrived in Cape Town, take a break, then a trip along 'The Garden Route'  to Durban, stopping at Bloukrans bungy jump, 40 miles before Port Elizabeth, to do it again!  yea ! yea ! yea!
(highest bungy in the world.)
Here
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OxxTDQzRrkU
Then onto Port Elizabeth, East London and onto 'Durb's'
From "Durb's, head to The Sani pass, it is just 100 miles perhaps.
And then a loop back to Cape Town.

[Paul_Humphreys]

Have a read of this for the info on Carnet.

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=27828&hl=carnet

Paul
_________________
LC 80 series 1993. 285/75/16s Cooper SSTs, OME 850s on the front with 25mm packer, 868s on the rear. 4.88 diffs. Winch bumper with 12000lb winch.
HD rear bumper with wheel carrier and winch mount.

http://www.crag-uk.org
http://www.4x4responsewales.org

[uk_vette]

[size=18]And here
(Extract)

R L Davison Insurance Premium - to be advised by RAC on receipt of completed Carnet application form
Premium of 10% - payable calculated on overall security/risk,
EXAMPLE : Africa tour including East Africa/Kenya (excluding Egypt), vehicle value - £5000.00
£5000 x 200% = £10,000. Premium of 10% payable, being £1000 with 50% refunded on return of carnet.
Insurance Premium Tax @ 5%

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Your Hilux is worth more than £5k
I would have thought yous is circa £15k
If you plan on Egypt, with the 800% requirement, your required insurance policy is now
£15000 x 800% = £120k
Premium of 10% = £12k
50% refund = £6k

OK, my cruiser isn't worth £15k, but probably around £13k.
I could not sleep easy if I had to find around £5k for a carnet.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Also, the guide for Libya.
And also the "robbing" ferry at Aswan to Wadi Halfa.

How about, a possible alternative route.
Head to Istanbul, 2000 miles.
Then Syria, Jordan, Saudi, cross at Jeddah to the ferry port, Sawakin, just south of Port Sudan, , then pick up the rest of your route?
Istanbul to Jeddah around 2500 miles.

Just an idea. ?

Graham

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yes that 800% is a big problem; it is a very big pill to swallow. I think we need to get a big sponsor. I don’t like that way, I’ve got UK plates on my hilux.
Let me have a look at my map and see what i can do, will let you know.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

London to Capetown
Has any one got some cash for a Carnet de Passages.
My bank does not want to help me.lol

[toafrica]

uk_vette,

If we are going at about the same time we are going to criss-cross constantly - looks like a mighty fine route - identical to ours (if we finally decide on East Coast/Saudi), but we are going to Rwanda/Uganda to see the gorillas, apart from that spot on actually..
I have done Egypt on public transport already so not too phased about missing it to be honest, we also did all the way to Bamako (Mali) last year (in 15 days).

Need to check out the Saudi ferry bits, as they are precious about getting rid of you - i.e don't want you to be turned back from Sudan etc. May need to get Sudanese visa in Jordan or something.

You are obviously doing Sani Pass - they are talking about grading the road properly which would be a great shame if they did.
I have the Oct/Nov copy of 'Drive Out' - Gravel Travel and SA4x4 if you want to check them out - really good for hidden gems - camp sites etc - but you probably know them anyway. PM me your address and I'll stick them in the post if you are interested...
Cheers
Andrew
_________________
2001 Colorado D4-D - BFG-AT's, OME, snorkel, ASIFR plates
Was preparing for Overland - but unexpected baby has delayed that - NOTE - delayed not cancelled

[uk_vette]

Hi Andrew,
I forgot to mention  about the ''Silverbacks'' gorrilas.
They must be a sight to behold.
Places to pass on the way.

I will pm you my address, and I will look after them 100%, for safe return, when I have read them.

Nogorogoro Crater

Sarengeti.

Masai Mara

Zambezi

Lake Victoria

Kariba Dam

Okavango

Etosha

Skeleton Coast

Peter, also on the HUBB, wants to do the trip in 6 weeks.
It is probably 'do'able'
But there is just too much to miss.
This is a trip i think would take 3 months 12 ~ 13 weeks.
I really don't know!

There is a whole different world in 'Africa'
I just have to be back there.
Under the stars, in a cheap Asda 3 man tent.
I was planning on taking 2 cheap 3 man tents, (one as a spare)
Fitting a 6 foot 6 inch by 4 foot 6 inch roof rack, probably a 'cut-down' van rack, to 4 roof rails I have, similar to what LC has done.
Drop a piece of 10mm plywood in the roof rack, and pitch the tent on that!
I will have a piece of 3 inch foam to throw inside the tent when its up.
Then just sleeping bags or whatever. Job done.
Nothing technical, I don't want to buy a £500 special rooftop tent.


I lived almost 16 years in Cape Town, and myself an the wife go back quite regular.
Actually, she go's back twice as regular as me, 'cos all her family are there.
I get back to Cape Town once a year, but she will go 2 ~ 3 times a year.
She is really looking forward to our trip, even though no date is fixed yet, she likes driving holidays, so thats a plus for me.
Plus she's a world class cook!

Graham

[toafrica]

Was someone listening to us???????

Promising indeed... lets hope it takes off - the Blue Nile Ferry enterprise/cartel will be in serious trouble if this in fact does come to fruition - lets hope it does

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentID=2008112522927
_________________
2001 Colorado D4-D - BFG-AT's, OME, snorkel, ASIFR plates
Was preparing for Overland - but unexpected baby has delayed that - NOTE - delayed not cancelled

[uk_vette]

Oh thats great news,

To be able to cross from Saudi to Sudan without too much bother would be excellent.
The run down to Istanbul is roughly 2000 miles.
Probably a relaxing 2 week run.

Then Syria, Jurdan and Saudi.
I have heard it is not as easy as it could be to get a Saudi visa, but not too difficult.

I did do all the distances for the legs from Istanbul to Jeddah, then Port Sudan to Khartoum, and down to Cape Town.

What route would be your preference, from Khartoum down to the Cape?

What countries and attractions are you hoping to see.

Graham

[andyastonuk]

Hi

I met a couple that got there Carnet from Swizerland, they had a UK registered car and they said it was a fraction of the price, worth investigating.

Andy

[uk_vette]

[Bosvark]

Just a suggestion, if you go over the sani pass head on to the  Katse Dam and Lesotho  hydro-water scheme, I have not been there my self but was told by friends it is worht the visit
http://www.go2africa.com/lesotho/katse-dam

http://www.drakensberg-tourism.com/4x4-offroad.html
http://www.drakensberg-tourism.com/clarens.html
http://www.antbear.co.za/information/sentinel-tugela-falls.htm

[uk_vette]

hello Boss,
There must be so many wonderful places to go, and sights to see when in that part of the world.
All around the Drakensberg there are sights that will astound even the most travelled of travellers.

I have had a few people on HUBB tell me about the ferry from Saudi port of Jedahh to Sudan.
So unless there is a change in policy for that daft 800% carnest, then most certainly, I will NOT be doing Egypt.
I have also read several reports, that the German and Swiss Carnet is no longer available to UK vehicles with UK driver.
however, this is still an avenue, albeit, a narrow one.

I quite fancy Istanbul, Syria, Jordan route, and I have been asking regular questions on HUBB as to the efficient border crossings.

Well, lets all see what we can find, and I am sure where there is a will there is a way.

Graham