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Keys question

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Dafydd Wynn Williams
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Joined: 19 Feb 2020
Posts: 68
Location: 3 miles south of Bangor North Wales

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 16:41    Post subject: Keys question Reply with quote

Hi All,

With my 2004 SWB I was given genuine Toyota :-

1. a 2 button key which does all that the handbook describes, and

2.  a NON button key  which unlocks the doors and starts the engine.

I have a blank key and an empty fob shell, if I get the blank key cut will it provide me with an additional emergency spare and open the doors and start the engine? or maybe just open the doors?   i.e. does my NON button key have any electronics inside or is it just a plain key?

I have enquired from a couple of Key Cutting people and get conflicting answers, both seem intent on programming a transponder!!

Dafydd   WW
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RADIOTWO
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Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 776
Location: GLOSSOP

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 17:28    Post subject: Re: Keys question Reply with quote

Dafydd Wynn Williams wrote:
Hi All,

With my 2004 SWB I was given genuine Toyota :-

1. a 2 button key which does all that the handbook describes, and

2. a NON button key which unlocks the doors and starts the engine.

I have a blank key and an empty fob shell, if I get the blank key cut will it provide me with an additional emergency spare and open the doors and start the engine? or maybe just open the doors? i.e. does my NON button key have any electronics inside or is it just a plain key?

I have enquired from a couple of Key Cutting people and get conflicting answers, both seem intent on programming a transponder!!

Dafydd WW


Hi
If you have a non button  key cut it will open the door but won't start the engine, as it won't have a "immobilizer chip" in it, the spare key you have without buttons has the chip built in.
and if you get a chip it will have to be coded to the car
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Steve
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Dafydd Wynn Williams
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Joined: 19 Feb 2020
Posts: 68
Location: 3 miles south of Bangor North Wales

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 18:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Steve,

That answers my doubt. To produce a key that only opens the doors is pretty pointless, only use would be to retrieve keys locked inside,  if that were possible.
Thanks for that.

Dafydd   WW
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Tractionman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 261
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 18:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spot on, Steve.
Daffyd, did you get the smaller grey top valet key, that locks/unlocks the glove box ?
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Dafydd Wynn Williams
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Joined: 19 Feb 2020
Posts: 68
Location: 3 miles south of Bangor North Wales

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 21:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi TM,

Yes, I have the NON button grey fob key, which unlocks the doors and starts the motor.  I have not tried the glove box, and perhaps I have got it wrong, but I thought that the grey key did'nt operate the glove box so that if you handed your car to someone to park it you gave them the grey key so that the glove box remained private???

I'll try it tomorrow.

Dafydd   WW
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Tractionman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2007
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Location: Bournemouth, Dorset

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 21:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daffyd, you're dead right, no need to check mate, I got it back to front. The grey key does exactly as you describe, never got it with mine.
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Tractionman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 261
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 22:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daffyd,  Forget my previous. Given the grey key some more thought, and Im sure there is no chip in it, so will only operate the glove box and NOT unlock/start the vehicle. Thats the one you hang on to when leaving the lc with someone, and they usual black button key is handed over. Thats the one with the chip that will allow door locks and ignition to operate but not glove box ??
I've started something here, haha. 🤔😆
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karl2000
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Joined: 25 Apr 2021
Posts: 104
Location: North West

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 23:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dafydd,

Yep if it starts the engine, there is a transponder chip in it!

The flashing security light on the dashboard should go out when you put the key in - thats because its recognised the transponder in the key.

If you've got a shell and can get the physical key cut (a lot of places will only cut their own blanks, they moan about the metal), you can buy the remote control bit from e bay and program it yourself.  Make sure you get the right one though, theres two versions to my knowledge!  

Theres two steps to program it - one for the remote buttons (lock/unock), and one for the immobiliser transponder.

If you get a key cutting place to do you a transponder key, I think they clone the one you give them; rather than attaching a new one to the car.
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Dafydd Wynn Williams
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Joined: 19 Feb 2020
Posts: 68
Location: 3 miles south of Bangor North Wales

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, so I've physically checked the keys and this is the result;-

The dark grey sealed NON button key operates the door locks, starts the engine, but wont operate the glove box lock. (It cannot operate the door locks remotely not only because it has no transponder and buttons, but also because it has no battery/power!)

The two button key operates the glove box lock, and everything else.

Both keys only go into the glove box lock a short way, the ends of the keys are slightly different in shape so its a physical/mechanical difference rather than an electronical difference which governs the glove box lock operation.

There is no difference in the dash lights display between the two keys.

Karl,  yes one of the several Key Cutters I contacted mentioned the hardness of  pattern keys and his reluctance to cut anything which he had not supplied.  Also Karn could you expand on the last line of your post as i am not clear what you are saying.

Dafydd   WW
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karl2000
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Joined: 25 Apr 2021
Posts: 104
Location: North West

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dafydd,

So your non button key must have a transponder in it - otherwise the engine wouldn't start.  It doesn't need a key battery because the transponder is powered by induction from the car when you put the key in.  ie it gets close enough to the car that the car can supply energy to the magic bit in the key.

There is a limit to the number of keys that you can register on the car - both the number of remotes, and the number of transponders.  If you clone an existing transponder key, it wont count as a new key.

If you want a fully functioning spare key the easy way, you can order a new key with transponder / remote fully programmed from the key number (or VIN) - I did that over the internet during lockdown when I couldn't get a key cut anywhere.  Not cheap though, think about 50 quid from memory.
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Dafydd Wynn Williams
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Joined: 19 Feb 2020
Posts: 68
Location: 3 miles south of Bangor North Wales

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Karl,

Thanks for that. Did you order your key from a Toyota Garage, Toyota UK or elsewhere?  Your suggestion of 50 is a surprise, I've had a figure of 100s from somewhere in the distant past.

Dafydd   WW
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karl2000
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Location: North West

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dafydd,

I got it from https://www.car-keys-online.com - place up in Tyneside.  They were brilliant, just checked my invoice and it was 56.  But they supplied and programmed everything for that.  I think you might have to send your V5 and prove ownership.  If you have a key number they can use that, but if not you can use your VIN and they will even tell you the key number so you can record it for future use!
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karl2000
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Joined: 25 Apr 2021
Posts: 104
Location: North West

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

HI Dafydd,

Just had another look at that site and they seem to have the keys available, but it says they dont program the transponder / remote.  I thought mine came programmed but maybe it didn't - I had so much messing about with keys I can't remember.

But they certainly supply the cut key, and all the electronics.

Programming the remote and transponder is something you can do yourself, just using the car - ie you dont need computers etc.

There is a process you go through to program the remote buttons, and a process to program the transponder.  The info is available online - I've done it quite a few times and other people here have done it too, so we can advise you if you need that.
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Dafydd Wynn Williams
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Joined: 19 Feb 2020
Posts: 68
Location: 3 miles south of Bangor North Wales

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Karl,

Early last year I tried to programme a repaired broken key for a TLc that I had briefly, using instructions I got from this site I think, involving opening and shutting doors etc etc  or some such I dimly remember, but it didn't work!  I gave up.

If I get a key from Car-Keys-Online I may be in touch to aid me in programming.

Dafydd   WW
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Tractionman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 261
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 13:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Dafydd, good write up mate.
Karl did take the time to show and tell me what the crack is, when he knew I didn't have the grey key, a while ago, but it obviously didn't sink in. At the time I was thinking of replacing the lock cylinder, or sounding out the vehicle locksmith if keys could be cut. As it was not a priority, I forgot it, literally !
I have 2 push button keys, but the plastic fobs are in bad shape, but work fine. I bought a blank key/fob that needs cutting, (not everywhere will do them if you don't have the code) and a seperate chip which needs re coding.. i believe Karl found somewhere on line that supplies the whole lot.

Karl, I know you have carried out the operation of open/shut doors to programme your new push button keys, but  does Techstream also delete/programme keys ?
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