The Toyota Landcruiser Owners Club

Crispin · Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:19 Post subject: Steering adjustment

Hi Folks,

The steering wheel on my 120 is about 10-15 degrees off. (Not much but enough to annoy me Mad

) I did ask the dealer to fix it but it was forgotten. He has said I should bring it back to be fixed but the distance to the dealer / time etc don't really make it worth my while.

Many moons ago when I was a young'n I removed the steering wheel on my mom's Ford Sierra, moved it over two notches on the spline and put it all back together. All in all - 5 minutes.

Is the same routine possible with this car? Does the hooter / cover just pull off with some force or anything special? Airbag not going to explode in my face?

The car does not pull to the side. So long as there is no camber, she makes two tracks and not four.

I am having my punctured wheel replaced on Saturday, should I just ask them to do it for me? I suspect it would be the same cost as checking the alignment etc.

TIA
_________________
Cheers,
Crispin
Have Snorkel, Will Swim

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garystockton · Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:47 Post subject:

You may pop the airbag - not sure, but think you've got to be careful about that. also if you move the wheel on the column then the indicator arm doesn't always return properly (BTDT Laughing

)

Took mine to KwikFit for alignment and they got it all sorted no issues. Sorted the pull to the left as well (although Mr T is sorting the seized caliper as I type that may be part of the problem) and got the steering wheel straight too. Easy way out, I suspect ...
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I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it.
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leon · Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:27 Post subject:

if its like a 100 then on both sides there is a little door type thing you pop them off
this lets you undo 2 star screw's and you lift the mid of the wheel off from here you unplug the airbag gubbin's and lift that out ..its pritty sterdy but dont hit it with a hammer
undo the big nut and lift the wheel off move it round and put it all back together the way it came off Smile

mine was at about 1.45pm before i sorted it out
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Should I have these bit's left over ?
1998 V8 LC Amazon VX work in progress
2008 pug boy
2009 pug boy
2010 pug girl
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Crispin · Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:14 Post subject:

Thanks guys - I might try it tonight. If I can't get it back on, I have a bobbejaan spanner I can use until I take it to the pro's. I'm South African - it's doable Smile

A not on the airbag though - I read somewhere you should not disconnect the airbag but rather pull the fuse. Something about the ECU / airbag system getting confused about a missing airbag. The thread was not conclusive though (I'll pull the fuse).
_________________
Cheers,
Crispin
Have Snorkel, Will Swim

dannyson · **** Joined: 26 Sep 2008 Posts: 448 Location: Cornwall

Gary...

What is it about you and Kwik Fit Shocked

- I must be missing something ... as I never give them a thought when have problems? Confused

garystockton · Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:27 Post subject:

no commercial interest Wink

there's one located very close to me and let me break all the rules and go stand over the 'technician' while he does his thing.
I'm sure it annoys because I've been known to get a tad grumpy when they don't do it right ... The accent helps!!

And this particular branch honours their guarantee. If it ain't right they do it again.

But I wouldn't let them near the engine or anything else major Laughing

_________________
I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it.
- Terry Pratchett

Desperatezulu · Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:24 Post subject:

Crispin,

I would second Gary's suggestion to get the alignment (toe-in & caster) checked out - by Kwikfit if you like - before you start taking off the steering wheel. Otherwise, you may end up having to undo your steering wheel adjustment if/when you discover the root of the problem. I would say that the chances of the problem being that your steering wheel has slipped round a couple of splines is extremely remote, so adjusting this will only mask the problem, not fix it.

BTW, I had the same issue on my 80 and it was the toe-in that was wrong - had it corrected the and the steering wheel is centred again. Very Happy

Hope that helps!

Cheers,
_________________
Andrew

'98 LC80 4.2TD VX 24v

Landcrusher · Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:32 Post subject:

Sorry if this is egg sucking, but your vehicle going in a straight line and not pulling does NOT necessarily mean that your tracking is OK. It simply means that whatever issues there are are canceling each other out. Steering alignment drives me nuts. I have to have to bang straight or I go crazy so I know how you feel. But on this, I would go to a garage and have a full 4 way check and alignment.

LC
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HDJ 80 but still a 90 owner at heart (yeah right!)

Crispin · Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:56 Post subject:

I've had this before when they have fixed a real alignment problem (thanks to pothole etc) and not bothered to check the wheel. So you end up with a car making two lines on the road but your wheel is out. Words cannot describe how annoyed I get at it. It's laziness. Twisted Evil

You dumb (£&"^" do you not check things like this!

Landcrusher -
Why would you say that? The car does not pull, on a level road it fine. Any slight camber in the road and it drifts into that. Twice with my car(s) and two other people I have know have had suspension work or alignment done and it's come back with a squint steering wheel. After "subtly" pointing it out to them it is easily fixed. Never a hint of embarrassment that they could have been that daft mind you.

How can the alignment be out, the car not pull to the side due to it's off centre steering counter acting it?
(It's an honest question in case I get flamed Embarassed

)

I also don't for a second think that the wheel has slipped or moved on the splines - pretty much impossible. Just cite it as the easiest method to fix it if it's minor enough.
_________________
Cheers,
Crispin
Have Snorkel, Will Swim

uk_vette · Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 13:51 Post subject:

Hi Crispin,

Dead easy,

Just get the front alignment done.

They will fit this clamp thing to the bottom of the steering wheel in the 'dead ahead' position.

They will then adjust the track rod ends to suit the new position of the strerrie wheel.

I really wouldn't consider pulling the wheel off an LC, god knows what could potentially go wrong.

'vette

Landcrusher · Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 15:45 Post subject:

Sorry Crispin, got a bit lost in the length of the question there. The fact is that if both wheels are out, by the same, the car will go straight, but the tracking is still out. If only one wheel is out, then yes, you tend to get pull. Usually, camber shouldn't affect the drive. But when the wheels (toe in or toe out) is wrong, it WILL follow the camber of the road when you don't want it to. With tyre as wide as battleships the effect can be more pronounced. Make sense - both wheels out - car still goes straight. One wheel out, car pulls - usually.

LC
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HDJ 80 but still a 90 owner at heart (yeah right!)

Crispin · Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 15:56 Post subject:

Landcrusher · Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 16:32 Post subject:

Let us know what comes up.

Generally you'd expect 4x4 to have poor wear, but actually many of them are exceptionally good. Full-time, permanent vehicles like yer Cruiser are properly set up and designed well. Some of the part time, auto engage etc etc systems are a compromise, usually because they don't have a real centre diff. Think of the front wheels like skis. You can go in a straight line with them pointing out or pointing in or dead ahead. The same is true of wheels. But in order to make the vehicle more 'pointy' and stable in a straight line, the wheels are biased very slightly inwards. This make the rear follow the front - a bit like a three wheeler (ok ok not like a three wheeler, but you get the idea). Some vehicles have rear tracking too. I had one and had both ends tracked. It DID crab because I had 2 x single tracking done instead of four wheel alignment. Back was spot on, front was perfect, but together they were miles out. Solid rear axles don't suffer from this. A really good tyre specialist can tell a lot from your tyres, like a decent doctor. Having poor tracking doesn't necessarily lead to uneven tyre wear. It can be even, but faster than it should be, right across the tread.

LC
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HDJ 80 but still a 90 owner at heart (yeah right!)

Crispin · Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 22:36 Post subject:

so....

I arrived at 8:30 sharp. They duly replaced my punctured tyre. Expensive replacing a tyre that has only gone around 3 times.

I asked about the steering, he said it would be just under £30 to do the alignment. While I tried to explain the "problem" he looked very bored and repeated "£30 for the alignment".
"Fine" I said. "Let's do it as well"

After 20 minutes I get handed the keys and told everything is ship shape. It was slightly out but is not perfect.
In I get and drive away. Almost crashed. While looking at how lovely and straight the steering wheel is, I had not noticed I was heading 30 degrees off the road. IT WAS $(*£"&£^ WORSE THAN WHEN I GAVE IT TO THEM!!!! Twisted Evil

I went back and gently made my point. Well, not too gently.
They said they would fix it. This time, they even got out the steering hook to brake clampy thing.
I got it back 30 minutes later. It was back to where it was in the first place. This time I was slightly more annoyed.

He said he would have one more go and if not, refund me my money. I asked if he gave up on all jobs that easily or just this time? No response.
I also asked, brazenly so, if another guy could do it. I was running out of time and patients.

An hour later and many test drives by the mechanic, I was told it could not be fixed! Here's your £30.
I got in and drove away. It was 11:45.
As I drove, I was pleasantly surprised that the steering was not that bad. Better than when I arrived. Still not perfect but much better.

The best part to it all was when the, I presume, owner was selling me the line "it's a trailing link something or other that is very difficult to set up and you best leave it as is because this trailing link thingy ma-jig bla bla bla" and the mech interrupted saying "Well it's actually not that it's a normal rack and pinion bla bla bla". The look and argument that ensued between them was worth it. Clowns. The youngest guy arguing with the boss in front of a customer to whom the line has just been sold....

My Question: (Assuming you still here)
What do I do? It's better than it was. It's not perfect though. It's about half way between 12 and 1 on the clock. Main thing is - it's not the way Mr T made it. It will bug me for all time.
Do I go to another (kwik-fit owned by Gary?) place and try again. If they fail I get my money back so it's only my time.
Is it really that difficult?

These guys did not have the computer geometry set-up. Just the bolt on laser jobbies. Could it be done better at with computer based one?

Thanks for read Wink

_________________
Cheers,
Crispin
Have Snorkel, Will Swim

uk_vette · Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:07 Post subject:

Hi Crispin,

So they had the laser goodies bolted to all 4 wheels ?

Did they drive it slowly over a 'floating plate' before they started?
This gives them a general idea of what is wrong, toe in, toe out, caster, camber, alignment,
They will drive the whole vehicle, front and back wheels over the plate several times, while a computer gathers the information.

Then onto the lift, with the wheels still loaded with the weight of the vehicle.
Clamp the old sterrie wheel in the 'strait ahead', nothing difficult there I think !
Then they would normally either, hand 4 x laser sights, about 600mm long onto each of the 4 wheels, making sure the sights are in contact with the steel of the wheel, or remove the wheels, and bolt them to the hubs, using the wheel bolt holes.

Its isn't a major job even, sheesh, I am sure you could have done better yourself with the equipment they have.

Take the £30 to another garage if it niggles you, it would niggle me, if it was just 1% out of center.

Any way, 'least you got 95% there and 'money back' !

'vette